Starter Girlz Podcast

How Emotionally Intelligent Leaders Win with Isabelle Fortin

• Jennifer Loehding • Season 7 • Episode 78

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What separates good leaders from great ones? Emotional intelligence.

In this inspiring episode, leadership expert Isabelle Fortin shares hard-earned lessons from over 30 years of military and corporate leadership, offering entrepreneur motivation for leaders at every level. Discover why 98% of decisions are emotional — and how understanding this can completely transform how you lead, both in your startup journey or as a leader of an evolving team.

You'll learn:

  • Why emotional intelligence is a leader’s ultimate superpower
  • How tapping into emotions first creates better communication and stronger teams
  • Practical strategies for improving leadership effectiveness and workplace culture
  • Why embracing imperfection builds more trust and connection
  • How human-centered leadership fuels business growth

If you're ready to lead with more authenticity, empathy, and impact, this conversation will show you how.

✨ Join the Starter Girlz community and unlock your leadership potential!

Isabelle Fortin:

And we all think that we're all these things. Truth be told is, when you take a decision or your initial reaction to something in the brain, there's two systems system one and system two. System one is emotional. It's where your intuition lies, it's where all the data that comes in either way, you know, through your ears, through your eyes, through your senses, is processed, and this is when most of your decisions are taken. That's system one. System two is it analyzes, it solves very complex problems. It's, you know, it's very, actually, really truly logical and cerebral. So that's system two. Psychological and cerebral. So that's system two. What most people don't understand and that includes everybody, by the way, so I'm including myself is 98% of all decisions that we take in a day, every day, all year in life, is taken by system one.

Jennifer Loehding:

Welcome to the Starter Girlz podcast, your ultimate source of inspiration and empowerment. We're here to help women succeed in every area of their lives career, money, relationships, and health and well-being while celebrating the remarkable journeys of individuals from all walks of life who've achieved amazing things. Whether you're looking to supercharge your career, build financial independence, nurture meaningful relationships or enhance your overall well-being, the Starter Girls Podcast is here to guide you. Join us as we explore the journeys of those who dare to dream big and achieve greatness. I'm your host, jennifer Loehding, and welcome to this episode. Welcome to another episode of the Starter Girlz podcast, wherever you are tuning in today, we are so glad to have you. I'm your host, jennifer Loehding, and we are ready to get this thing started. So I want to open up with this. What happens when someone takes the structure and discipline of the military, combines it with a passion for communication and leadership and challenges the outdated norms of the corporate world? You get a bold new perspective on what leadership should look like, one that puts people first, and so I am so excited about this today because I have got to like spend time with this amazing lady, like before this show and on a previous conversation. I love her spirit, her energy. She's like a fireball. So this is just going to be, I think, an incredible episode. But before we can get her on to chat with us, we got to do a quick shout out to our sponsor.

Jennifer Loehding:

This episode is brought to you by Walt Mills Productions. Need to add excitement to your YouTube videos or some expert hands for editing? Look no further. Walt Mills is the solution you've been searching for. Walt is not only your go-to guy for spicing up content. He's the force behind a thriving film production company with numerous titles in the pipeline. Always on the lookout for raw talent, walt is eager to collaborate on film and internet productions. With a background deeply rooted in entertainment and promotion, walt Mills leverages years of skills to give you the spotlight you deserve.

Jennifer Loehding:

Want to learn more about Walt and his work? Head on over to waltmillsproductions. net and let your content shine. All right and with that I want to make one more mention to head on over to startergirlz. com. That's a Z, not an S. I say it every time. Why you want to go over there? For a couple of reasons. If you have missed an episode, you can find them all on there. They're all updated every week. The other thing is you can sign up to be in our community and you can stay in the know as to what is happening in the Stargirls world and what we're putting out, but also there is a free quiz on there and it is a lot of fun.

Jennifer Loehding:

It is a two-minute quiz. It will help you figure out what your number one success block block is that may be impacting your success right now. So head on over there, take the free quiz, get signed up in the community and catch up on all the episodes that you missed, and we're going to bring our guest on. So I'm excited. Let's get this thing rolling.

Jennifer Loehding:

My guest today, Isabelle Fortin, began her journey in the Royal Canadian Air Force, where she spent a decade honing communication and leadership skills, eventually attending the prestigious Royal Canadian Leadership School, but it was her transition into the corporate world that sparked a deeper mission. Dismayed by the every-person-for-themselves mentality she encountered, isabel set out to reimagine leadership from the ground up. Now, with over 30 years of combined military and business leadership experience, she empowers human-centered leaders to tap into the uniqueness of every team member. Using a revolutionary behavioral and motivation assessment tool, isabel helps CEOs and HR leaders improve communication, culture, retention and profitability. She's also the dynamic host of the Human Leader Livestream and a powerful speaker and consultant known for her customized against the ordinary approach. And so, Isabelle, welcome to the show. We are so excited to have you here today.

Isabelle Fortin:

Thank you so much, jennifer. You know what, every time I hear my bio being read to me, I go holy how, like when did I get old? Well, how is it that I have 30 years experience? And I, seriously this thought goes through my mind and I go yeah, I have over 30 years experience. Isn't that crazy how that is.

Jennifer Loehding:

I always joke. I say this, you know it's funny, because I feel like almost every episode we do, somebody says something about the bio and I tell people they've heard that my listeners know this is my favorite part. I mean, I love all the conversation, but I really love crafting these because I think those bios are so freaking powerful. You know, like we get, like you just said, we lose sight of where we've come and where we are. We get so used to it because we just wake up and that's who we are every day. Right, but it almost puts us back in that perspective of going, wow, I did all those things and look how far I've come and look at what I'm doing now and the impact I'm creating, and so I just think they're fun and they're powerful and I really enjoy crafting them for you, for all y'all, when you come on here.

Jennifer Loehding:

Well, you do a good job at it, thank you, thank you. Hopefully you feel special. That's what we want. I do. I am special, that's right. That's right, all right, well, well, let's get this thing rolling here. So I want to talk about what you are doing, because you're what your leadership is a big thing.

Isabelle Fortin:

We're talking about culture, so tell us a little bit about this company, what you're doing for your clients, well, so what I do for my clients is I help the leaders tap into the unique abilities of every single individual on the team. And why do I do that? Well, well, because everybody wins, the company wins, the bottom line wins, the leader wins and the employees win. Because when you know what is that special thing about you, what is it that you contribute to the team that nobody else does, what is it when they tap into that, your own unique ability? Well, as an individual, as an employee, you feel you know, seen, heard, valued, because you are all these things.

Isabelle Fortin:

But it also has what I call the dinner table effect. When you go to work and you spend, I don't know, 40, 50, 60 hours a week, you know on location, or even you know from your home, on your computer, and you know what it is that you contribute that nobody else does. Well, what does that do to your day and what does that do to your mood? So you show up better at your dinner table. You show up better for your kids, for your spouse, for your community, for your parents, your siblings, your friends and everybody. And it impacts their lives and the people that they are in, you know, in conversations or in contact with, so it affects everybody. Yeah, that's why I do it. Ultimately, that's how I do it because, for extremely selfish, I want to use my own unique abilities to impact the world so that I know how I contributed to the world. If I work with leaders, that is the way to impact the most amount of people.

Jennifer Loehding:

Yeah, yeah, no, I agree with you on that and I like that you said the part about like they have the impact around, with the people that are around them, because I think a lot of us I'm sure not everybody, but a lot of us that's kind of the way we think I know. That's why I do the work, and I just told somebody this the other day for selfish leading, they're making a difference. Like our world is smoother, right, like it really is just smoother.

Jennifer Loehding:

And I you know, say our world would be better today if we had more leaders in it. You know what I mean More people that could rise up and be effective at communication and all those things that we need to be great leaders. So, yes, there is the potential to have. You know the impact on those around us, and it can be simple things, as you know the impact on those around us. And it can be simple things as you know how you're raising your children, to how you're you know handling media. You know and community groups that you're involved in, to how you're dealing with people at work, your your. You know your peers and, if you're in leadership, your employees.

Isabelle Fortin:

Absolutely. It impacts the world. That's where we stand. The most time awake, obviously, in our lives is is at work yeah, so if you wake up on monday morning and and you're, you know, feeling crappy because you have five days of this crap to go through, man, there's something wrong. Yeah, and I don't think. I truly don't think we were put on this planet to suffer for five days and enjoy only two. Come on, life is better than that.

Jennifer Loehding:

Yeah, no, I agree, you don't. You want to be living for like Friday, right, it's always Monday and Friday. I always joke and say it's always Monday and Friday, but it's not because I'm having bad days and I'm dreading going back. It's just because I'm so dang busy and loving what I'm doing all the time. I'm like freaking. Friday always shows up and then it turns around and it's Monday and the week is starting over again. I'm like dude, how does it go by so fast? I'm like it does every week. I feel like just flies through for me and probably you too. I probably had the whole world separate when you're a kid.

Isabelle Fortin:

You know what? It's so funny that you say that, jennifer, because this morning, every morning, I write my journal and I wrote the date and I went you know April 7th, and you know I, I keep on writing and I I stopped myself for a minute and I said how the, how the heck, are we the 7th of April already? Yeah, it was April 1st yesterday. How did six days pass?

Isabelle Fortin:

without me noticing anything but the older we get, the more this is, you know, a real thing in our lives. Time is going by so bloody quickly, so you know, you truly have to make the most out of it. Right, you know, grab the balls and have fun, dude, because if you blink too often, your life is going to be over.

Jennifer Loehding:

Yeah, yeah, and you want to be effective in that time. Absolutely, leader, right, yeah, absolutely, that's so great. So when your clients come to talk to you, you said you're working with leaders, now you do speaking as well. So are you going and doing like workshops with these guys, or is it more like a one-on-one type training?

Isabelle Fortin:

that you're doing in this leadership capacity. It is all of that. So I'm I'm a keynote speaker. That's one part of my business and then, truth be told, that's the part that I love the most. Yeah, I imagine that. Yes, because I was given the gift of lab, but when I work with a leader, I rarely it happens once in a while where I will only work with the individual, but most of the time I work with the leader and the team.

Isabelle Fortin:

So the first thing that I do is everybody goes through my assessment, and it's actually from Switzerland. It's called the NOVA assessment. It's a quote-unquote personality test, right? I cannot tell you how much I hate that term, because nobody's personality is there to be tested, so I prefer a psychometric assessment because in reality, that's exactly what it is. So everybody goes through that and everybody goes through their own personalized debriefing that lasts 90 minutes. It's not a small thing. The report that I get from the Nova platform, from the assessment, is anywhere between 25 to 40 pages long, so it's a real in-depth way of how is your brain connected? That's basically what the assessment is telling me.

Isabelle Fortin:

Everybody goes through their own individual thing, but then after that, there's two things that happen. The first thing is I will do quick or quicker debrief of every single individual to the leader and with that I provide what I call a cheat sheet. So instead of having the leader that is all already overwhelmed, overbooked and doesn't have time overwhelmed, overbooked and doesn't have time instead of having them read the 25 to 40 pages report on each of their team members, I create a three-day, a three-pages thing saying hey, listen, this is how you better communicate, this is what to avoid and this is what you tap into to get the best result for each and every individual. So then I have the meeting with just the leader about 13 minutes. By then we all come together and that part of my business I call the prenuptial agreement. I can tell you why Because this is life. You're going to have a bad day, your colleague is going to have a bad day. Your colleague is going to have a bad day, your boss is going to have a bad day. People are dealing with stuff you know nothing about, and you know nothing about them because it's none of your business. And that's okay, because not every part of ourselves belongs to our coworkers. So conflict is going to arise, period, that is, if you're dealing with more than one human, there's going to be potential for conflict. So what I do is I have the entire team come together and we come up with the strategy of how we're going to deal with one another with empathy, with kindness, with patience, with empathy, with kindness, with patience, and with the profound understanding that every member of the team is just a human doing their damn best at every given moment, and when you come up with a strategy that works for them. So for me, there's no cookie-cutter workshop that I take from one team apply to the other team and every single thing that I do with a company or with a team is customized to that particular team, because not everybody works the same and therefore, no, not every. Every team. Yeah, so that's basically what I do, and after that it's interesting Keeps on wanting to work with me on an individual level. Then I do, because then I can, you know, say how. How do you apply that on your daily life? Yeah, because you know what. I say that all the time.

Isabelle Fortin:

Jennifer, a psychometric assessment is like a treadmill. Threadmills are extremely efficient If you put them in the basement and all it does is collect dust. You're not going to be silly If you put it in front of your television, and every time you want to watch the TV, you have to be walking on the treadmill. Holy goodness, gracious, you're going to get a lot of results. Same thing applies to everything in your life, but same thing applies for psychometrics.

Jennifer Loehding:

Yeah, no, it makes sense and well and interesting, because I just recently developed a four-step system that I use to work with my clients and that is a piece of what I do in there too. It's not probably as in-depth as yours and I love this and it's making me think. Right now I need to figure out my own, some kind of assessment that I want to do for that, but it's not as prevalent as what I'm doing in my particular situation. But that is a big thing, because my point to this is that it's important to know your strengths and weaknesses because you can thrive better. It's not that we want to focus on the weaknesses or be like over here. It's just that I think it's all part of self-awareness when we're talking about self-awareness, right, and it's really tying into emotional intelligence, equitability, whatever the word EQ, whatever you want to call it right Emotional coach, whatever it's knowing, whatever you want to call it right Emotional coach, whatever it's knowing where you're going to thrive right, because if you can understand how you work and operate from the employee perspective, they're going to, like you said, be heard, feel, seen, all of those things because they're going to be in an environment where now they're thriving right and for the employer, they're going to have more efficiency because now they're putting people in the right places and they know how to work with them and what to do with them.

Jennifer Loehding:

And like you know, like it's almost like you know, I was just talking to somebody yesterday, funny enough, and she was she's a French teacher. Funny enough and I took French. It's always fun. We met somebody, connected us. We went to a cute little French restaurant here in town and we were talking about. She was telling me how she feels sometimes she's a people person and maybe not as much on the logic side, and I said you know, sometimes we really need we need more people over logic. We thrive on being practical and logical, but when you're dealing with humans, we need to bring a little more people into this.

Jennifer Loehding:

And I think that by doing that, what you're talking about is you're really kind of doing that because you're saying, yes, I may want to do this because this looks right for my systems, and this person took a, took a, got a degree in this particular place and we put them there, but they're not thriving there.

Jennifer Loehding:

That's not where they are doing their best. And how many people do we know go get degrees right and they realize midstream they don't even like what they're doing right Because it's not in alignment with what they see themselves doing, in alignment with what they're good at right. Like I studied accounting and then I realized in the middle of that I was like, okay, I'm good at math, but I just can't sit behind a desk and do numbers all day. I need to be in front of people, talking and engaging, and I might just put me you know, you might. Maybe you just put me in Walmart as a greeter and I might be happy because I just need to greet people. I'm joking about that, but I'm a person that needs to be like talking to people and engaging and not sitting behind the desk. And so I think there's definitely a need for understanding, as in from an employer perspective, how your people thrive, so that you can get them in the right places and they can feel heard and seen and they're going to be happier.

Isabelle Fortin:

And you know what I want to bounce off something you said if you, if I, if I may, you know, we all think ourselves for ourselves, we'll think, you know and you know. But I'm a rational being and I'm logical and we all think that we're all these things. Truth be told is, when you take a decision, or your initial reaction to something, in the brain, there's two systems system one and system two. System one is emotional. It's where your intuition lies, it's where all the data that comes in either way, you know, through your ears, through your eyes, through your senses, is processed, and this is when most of your decisions are taken. That's system one. System two is you know, it analyzes, it solves very complex problems. It's very, actually, really truly logical and cerebral. So that's system two.

Isabelle Fortin:

Well, what most people don't understand and that includes everybody, by the way, so I'm including myself is 98% of all decisions that we take in a day, every day, all year, in life, life, is taken by system one, which means it is emotional, it is irrational, it is full of cognitive biases. And, by the way, guys, cognitive biases, you have some period right, don't think you don't have any, you do. And everybody has Right and everybody does, I should say, and it's not laziness, it's shortcut that your brain created out of necessity, because your brain takes 20% of all of the energy of your entire body, even though it weighs about two pounds, two and a half pounds. So that's why it created biases. So we all have some. So if you truly, truly want to appeal to the logic of somebody, so have access to system two. You have to acknowledge system one. But we don't, because if I'm in a conflict with you, I want you to do what I want. That's right. Right, ultimately, and you want me to do what you want, right? If both of us knock heads, I mean we get along. But if both of us knock heads from system one to system one and system one to system one all of the time, it like taking a rock, hitting your head on it and keep on hitting your head, because that's all you're getting. So, in order to get to System 2 and actually have a quote-unquote, intelligent conversation, you have to acknowledge the other person's emotion. You have to acknowledge the other person's emotion. That's where empathy and adaptability and all of the EQ comes into play.

Isabelle Fortin:

So it's so funny because I had a spat with my boyfriend yesterday and, truth be told, we are in a recent relationship for our age I'm 53, he's 59. We've been together a year, so I mean it's not that long we don't't live together and thank goodness for that. We're not gonna um. So yeah, no, I'm not billed for cohabitation, I really am. I love it. You're like no, we're just not doing that exactly and and he's not built for it either. So, thank goodness we found one another.

Isabelle Fortin:

But anyway, back to the original story, we're having a spat yesterday and my system one is screaming at me W-T-F, right. So instead of saying, for the love of God, can you tell me why you did it this way? I caught myself, and that's the truth. Is that yeah, so yeah. And instead of saying wtf, I went honey, pause. Can you please help me understand this particular behavior of yours, because it's triggering stuff inside me and I would like to understand you better so we can come together and this behavior not affect me the way it's affecting me. You think we got mad at one another.

Jennifer Loehding:

No, we sat down and we talked not affect me the way it's affecting me. You think we got mad at one another. No, it was it came.

Isabelle Fortin:

Yeah, we sat down and we talked.

Isabelle Fortin:

We talked with an open heart and an open mind and when that was over, nobody was mad and we came to an understanding and an agreement that when he does that because more than likely it's a behavior Right, more than likely it's a behavior right, more than likely it's going to arise again before it's corrected right and I know it has nothing to do with me now, so I'm not going to get mad at it and I'm just going to say, you know, can it's, maybe, it's maybe not do that, and then, and then he can, he can auto correct if, if I catch him, or if he catches himself, yeah, that's it right, is that easy?

Isabelle Fortin:

Oh, no, no, no, no, no, not easy. No, it's just that I knew that if I got mad and rose some hell because that's my style, then I would not get what I want, right. So even if we take for granted and it isn't true, I know it isn't true Even if we took for granted that I did that for selfish reasons. So what Right? Right, it's getting better, it's better. It's. Who is his, by the way?

Isabelle Fortin:

yeah, no conflict don't get a temper on me, let me tell you, you know, I can probably figure that out, I'm hot-blooded. But hot-blooded is not gonna work with him, right, right.

Jennifer Loehding:

So if I want him in my life, I have to adjust that too so it's just, it just becomes better right, yeah, no, and and I want to I want to commend you on something very back in the beginning when you were talking about the systems, because I think this is, this is so good because I'm aware of all that, but I've never had anybody quite put it in that perspective and I think it's really good from a practical standpoint because you painted that as logical and practical System one, system two. You got to go through system one to get to system two and I would agree with you on every piece of that. I've just never heard anybody quite put it in that way. So I commend you on that, because somebody listening to this may have said you know the same thing, I've heard that but never quite thought of it that way. Or maybe somebody that especially men, because they don't get a lot of times this logic and practical, they just know logic, right. And it's funny because I feel like I just had this conversation with my husband yesterday too I think it was, or maybe it was Saturday morning about this. We were talking about the people over logic that you can't always just say the things you want to say, because if you're doing this in the middle of a conversation, the other person may not feel seen or heard, and now you have, basically, they're gonna feel gaslighted, and now, whatever you have to say, they don't care about at this point, because they've already felt unseen and unheard. Okay, so now they're shutting you down, and so all of this we're talking about here is so important. I feel like we could have a whole conversation on communication, role play, communication for people, right, because it is so huge and people don't get it.

Jennifer Loehding:

And when you start to learn these things like you were talking about the pausing and all of that, like I talk you know I do that too I always think about like, okay, if I say this, is this what we want to be saying right now, is this going to be effective? Is it going to cause a bigger problem if we do this? I mean, these are things that you have to learn to do. We don't just wake up and we know how to do these behaviors right. I didn't learn this skill. I had to work on training myself, and I say that with a little disclaimer that I'm also human, so I'm not perfect, and I'm sure you're not either.

Jennifer Loehding:

We do mess up sometimes, right, but we try to do it and I think of it sort of like doing CPR, like if you train to do CPR and you had to use it. You may not be a hundred percent, know everything, but you're going to do something, and something's better than nothing. And that's how I feel about this kind of stuff. When we're talking about leadership is that the more you continue to learn, yes, you're going to mess up. You're not going to be 100% perfect all the time, but you're going to keep getting better each time that you work through these things, and then you just become more effective at communication and working with yes, personal, intimate relationships, but also colleagues, employees, all those things on the other side, other family members, all of it it applies everywhere.

Isabelle Fortin:

Yes, applies everywhere, because the way that you get your boss to give you a raise, the way that you negotiate with your husband or your wife or your life partner whatever you want to call that person on where to go on vacation, whether you're negotiating with a four-year-old so that they eat their broccoli, it's the same, it's the same sort of thing it is. And we're coming, you know especially. I mean, we're not in our 30s. I have 35 years experience, so obviously I'm not in my 30s anymore, and the older that I get, and the more not only am I able and willing I should say willing to show that I am imperfect, but I am embracing that imperfection. Yeah, because you know what Perfect would be boring as hell, I agree. So you know what? Sometimes I mess up my, you know, I put one foot in my mouth and there's still room, so I put the other foot and it's just yeah, and it's and it's messy and it's. And thank God for that. Yeah, thank God, it's so funny.

Isabelle Fortin:

I read a book a long, long, long time ago and it was about exactly that. He says okay so, says okay. So the the first chapter starts with like that okay, so imagine you're going on vacation to a nice, you know, exotic resort and it's beautiful and it's, you know, let's say, 85 degrees, like warm, but not too warm, and it's not humid, it's by the sea and you've got a little breeze, you're feeling, feeling happy. It's like, oh, perfect weather, and you get a week of that. It's like, oh, perfect weather, and you get three weeks of that. It's like, oh yeah, it's nice.

Isabelle Fortin:

And you get six weeks of that and you go when the hell is it going to rain? Right, right, because you need the rain. The rain washes everything, and so I feel that that's the beauty of life. Sometimes we fight with our spouses or we fight with our kids, or we fight with our friends, and it clears the path. It clears the path for better communication and sometimes it just clears the path, because sometimes you're going to speak your truth and somebody is going to be offended by it and they're going to walk out of your life, and if they walk out, that's okay.

Jennifer Loehding:

Let them overarching message here is really just about effective leadership and communication. So I love all of this. So tell us a little bit about your show, what you got going on with that, so people know a little bit about it.

Isabelle Fortin:

Oh, I haven't had an episode in a long time, to be honest with you, because I got overwhelmed with stuff to do and clients.

Jennifer Loehding:

You're just too busy. You know, changing lives, it's okay, it happens.

Isabelle Fortin:

Yeah, but actually, you know, changing lives it's okay, it happens, yeah, but actually, you know, thank you for the question because it's um, putting putting back in my mind. Um, it was truly about meeting leaders and finally, it was short, like half an hour, and it was about knowing, okay, so what'd you learn? How'd you learn it? And if you could teach yourself something about, you know, teach your younger self something about leadership, what would it be like to say? And you know what, jennifer, it all boils down to the same thing. It all boils down to the same thing. It's listening and being there and truly tapping into the individual. Yeah, because that's how you get the most out of it.

Isabelle Fortin:

And yeah, you know what human beings we need to be seen, heard and valued. But honestly, the level of our needs is not you just say thank you, you just can profoundly mean it and that's it, that's the energy behind it. And you just tell someone hey, by the way, I haven't even a colleague. Hey, I haven't told you in a while, but you know what you did in this particular thing. Oh, goodness gracious, if it wasn't for you, we would have. You know, it would have been much, much, much harder or it would have taken longer if it wasn't for your contribution, and they will ride on that wave for weeks. Yeah, and they'll be willing to crawl through broken glass Not that they should.

Jennifer Loehding:

Yeah, yeah, so no, and I'm glad that I asked you that, so maybe you'll bring it back now that I asked you this. You know it's funny. I have another another I was doing two shows for a while, so I have another one out there too. That's kind of. It's got so many great stories on it that I've just left it accessible because I don't want to take it down now, because I know people. You know the stories are great and people want to listen to them, so, but no, I think it's great and that's one of the things I love about this show is the stories is talking to people about you know, what they've done and what they've learned in that process, and I feel like the truths are all universal.

Jennifer Loehding:

People say a lot of the same things. They just take a spin on them a little bit differently, and I think that's what's beautiful is that we all can walk into this from different places and have these journeys that are a little bit they're unique, but there's a lot of universal truths in them that shine through, you know, and so I think this one we're talking today has really been a lot about, you know, embracing uniqueness and the individual. Obviously, you are a unique individual and I'm a unique individual and I'm probably you're probably thinking like I am, like I'm not going to be strapped in a box. I don't want anybody to tell me what I'm supposed to be doing and what I'm not, because I'm probably not going to go along with that. It has to be my thing.

Jennifer Loehding:

My journey, my path, my podcast, my work, all of it. It has to be my thing. You know, and you know there's I think there's great things in learning stubbornness. You know it can be a bad thing sometimes, but it has certainly served me well in many times over my years. So I think you know embracing our uniqueness is important here, and I think you're giving people permission to do that and you're showing your leaders that they too don't have to be cookie cutter, mold type people. They can be different and they can embrace their people and show them a culture where they too can be unique individuals, you know.

Isabelle Fortin:

And you know what? It's so funny? Because when everybody talks to me about fitting in a box, I go I'm 5'10", 175 pounds. I don't fit in the damn box, you don't fit in it. No, I don't, I don't fit. That's great. No, I don't, I don't fit and I never. You know, and you know what, jennifer, you and I both, even though we don't come from the same place, we're both lucky enough to be born in a free country. I live in a country where I have freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom to love whomever I want, and nobody's going to make me shut up. Worst case scenario I'll look stupid and I'm okay with that.

Jennifer Loehding:

Yeah, yeah. So sometimes you gotta look stupid, you know. I mean, when we think about it, a lot of people that have done great things have looked stupid in the process of, you know, in face of great doing great things. So there's nothing wrong with that. I think that comes with part of you know. Part of the risk that you take is, you know, being whatever it is you're pursuing, or whether it's a passion project, or being a voice to something, whatever that is, and so I think you're doing a great thing by giving people that freedom to do that. There's nothing wrong with that, so it's all good.

Jennifer Loehding:

So I imagine that somebody listening. You know it's funny. I never know where these episodes are going to go. And it's so funny because we spent a lot of time today talking about something that's really important and that's great, because I think people need to hear these things about communication on it, because it's not just a one thing Like you just need to navigate it in the home, you need to navigate it everywhere. Or let's say, just say this bottom line You're not going to get what you want.

Jennifer Loehding:

You're not going to get what you want If you don't learn to communicate. You're going to be miserable. You're going to be a miserable person. You got to learn to communicate, so this is really good and it's good for all. It doesn't matter how old you are. You've got to learn to communicate Right. And so I think this is so important topic. But I say that because I never know where these episodes are going to lead to, and that's what I think is so beautiful about these conversations is they're unique and they're just, however we up and flow this thing. So I know somebody listening to this today is going to be like okay, where do I find this isabel girl? I like her personality, I need to catch up with her, follow her, check her workout, whatever. Where do you want us to send them?

Isabelle Fortin:

and my website is againsttheordinaryorg, because I am against the ordinary period, but against the ordinary leadership as well. Uh, and you can find me on, uh, linkedin. If you're listening to the audio, it's Isabel Fortin, the one with the purple hair, because there's a bunch of us I think there's 150 of us, so find the one with the purple hair and uh, you know, uh, uh, I was going to say linkedin. I just said that youtube and all these things, it's isn't important, it's not pretty easy it's awesome and so I'm gonna.

Jennifer Loehding:

I'm gonna say this I would imagine that as a child you were not like just the the easy going along with everything kind of child right, like you, always kind of a little bit, a little bit of a fighter I really wasn't I, I will tell you that because I was maybe.

Isabelle Fortin:

I was in the military anymore, but I was working for a corporation and during a meeting one of the uh c-suite shushed me in a meeting and I looked at him and I was maybe I must have been early 30s. And I looked at him and I was maybe I must've been early thirties. And I looked at him dead in the eyes. I said my dad couldn't make me shut up when I was eight. What chance do you think you stand today? Nobody makes me shut up. Worst case scenario disagree with what I'm saying, but I get to speak. And no, no, no, no, I'm yeah.

Isabelle Fortin:

I might've been a sad kid, though I was a very, very sad child. So yeah you, nobody makes me shut up, I'm laughing.

Jennifer Loehding:

I didn't mean to interrupt you.

Jennifer Loehding:

I'm just thinking if you and I had been friends cause we're about the same age If you and I had been friends when we were little, we would have been in trouble. I think we would have been in trouble because I was telling somebody the other day, like my, I was the kid and I'm going to end this, but I want to tell this story really good, but it's because it's funny and you're going to get it. I was the kid that my mom would say to me when I was little. She would say go, stand in the corner forever because I was not going to give in to the argument that I was arguing about. I was going to stay there until I got released and she'd finally just be like go to your room, I'm tired of looking at you. I have a joke now as an adult, like if I'm onto something I'm like and most of the time I'm joking about this but I'll say you're not going to win this argument, I can assure you I can stand in a corner for a very long time.

Isabelle Fortin:

Yeah, I was. I had the same, the same reason, the same reasoning. But I do the opposite is, I do apologize, even if I didn't mean it, because you wanted to get out. Yeah, I want to get out, so I was. I didn if I didn't mean it because you wanted to get out.

Jennifer Loehding:

Yeah, you wanted to get out. No, you were smarter than I was. I didn't care. Yeah, you were smarter. I was like I'm not giving in, I'm not telling you, I'm sorry, because I don't think I'm wrong. So I'm just not giving in. You're just going to leave me in this corner forever, right?

Isabelle Fortin:

And I'm telling to myself well, you know, you can't control where I am physically, but you can't control what I think. So I'm going to tell you what you don't want to hear, and then I'll be over with.

Jennifer Loehding:

Yeah, no, I appreciate that, isabel, you are. You're an amazing person. I love your boldness and your uniqueness and your purple in your hair and all of that. It's all good stuff, and we need bold people in the world. The world would be very dull if we did not have unique and bold in the world. We need it Right. So this has been so awesome. I want to thank you for the talk and giving us your wisdom, and I really you know it's I every episode. I remember bits and pieces and I really liked the system thing you talked about today, because you just made it in a, in a fashion where somebody maybe on the that wants to claim they're on the logical, practical side might be able to grab onto that and understand that and run away with it the next time they go to communicate. So thank you for all of that. It's been awesome. Thank you for having me.

Isabelle Fortin:

It's been a great conversation, as usual, awesome.

Jennifer Loehding:

All right, and, of course, to our audience. We love you, appreciate you. Thank you for tuning into this episode. We hope you found it both inspiring and informative. You found it both inspiring and informative and if you did, do all the things, share it, like it, comment, do all the things so we can keep sharing all the fabulous content with you guys. And I want to leave you with what I always say at the end of every episode In order to live the extraordinary, you must start, and every start begins with a decision. You guys, take care, be safe, be kind to one another and we will see you next time.

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Jennifer Loehding

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