Starter Girlz Podcast
Welcome to the Starter Girlz Podcast—your go-to source for inspiration, entrepreneur motivation, and empowering conversations. While we’re passionate about helping women succeed in every area of life—career, money, relationships, and wellbeing—we also celebrate the remarkable journeys of individuals from all walks of life who are chasing bold dreams and building businesses.
Each episode features inspiring success stories from trailblazing women and extraordinary men, offering practical advice, mindset strategies, and real-world insight into the startup journey and beyond.
Whether you're launching your next venture, striving for personal growth, or simply looking for motivation to keep going, Starter Girlz is here to guide and energize you.
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Starter Girlz Podcast
The Healing Power of Curiosity: What If Chaos Is the Only Way to Wake Up? (with Devon Kerns, Entrepreneur & Transformational Guide)
In this episode of Starter Girlz, Devon Kerns—known as the King of Curiosity, Chaos, and Stillness—shares how emotional chaos and deep personal loss became the catalyst for his greatest transformation. As a transformational guide, speaker, and entrepreneur, Devon has helped countless individuals find clarity, healing, and purpose through curiosity and inner work.
This conversation explores the power of curiosity, the role of psychedelics in emotional healing, and why chaos is often the first step toward awakening. Whether you're feeling stuck, navigating grief, or seeking deeper meaning, Devon offers a powerful perspective on how to turn discomfort into growth and healing.
What you’ll learn:
✅ Why curiosity is a powerful tool for healing
✅ How emotional chaos can trigger spiritual awakening
✅ The role of psychedelics and plant medicine in transformation
✅ How to sit with discomfort rather than escape it
✅ The link between presence, consciousness, and AI
✅ Why love, connection, and stillness are core to growth
Devon’s insights are grounded in lived experience and radical honesty. This episode is both thought-provoking and inspiring—perfect for anyone navigating the messy but meaningful path of personal growth.
🔗 Learn more about Devon:
www.devonkkerns.com
🎧 Love this episode?
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I really had some big questions, and so I walked into libraries and I started picking up business books. I walked into spaces where I just wanted to absorb and learn more, and I had people come into my life that were influential as well, both in spirituality and everything else from 18 to 21. Had incredible mind-bending encounters with animals and beings and just nutty stuff that we might dive into. But at the end of the day, I really started finding this fire in me to build something and to lead in the world of entrepreneurship, because one thing that I had discovered and still feel a fire for is no matter how bad it gets, I still can hold on to the dream, because the dream is bigger than what I'm doing. And so when people ask me today, like, what do you do?
Jennifer Loehding:Welcome to the Starter Girlz podcast, your ultimate source of inspiration and empowerment. We're here to help women succeed in every area of their lives career, money, relationships, and health and well-being while celebrating the remarkable journeys of individuals from all walks of life who've achieved amazing things. Whether you're looking to supercharge your career, build financial independence, nurture meaningful relationships or enhance your overall well-being, the Starter Girls podcast is here to guide you. Join us as we explore the journeys of those who dare to dream big and achieve greatness. I'm your host, jennifer Loehding, and welcome to this episode.
Jennifer Loehding:Welcome to another episode of the Starter Girlz podcast. Wherever you are tuning in today, we are so glad to have you, and I always like to say this show is, you know, about celebrating the disruptors and the people that are defying the norms and all of those good things. So I think this is going to be a fun episode today and I want to open up with this I think it's going to be great. So today's guest is one of those rare voices who doesn't just talk about change. He embodies it. While the world is busy trying to become somebody, my guest has chosen a different path, one rooted in service, humility and transformation. His approach isn't about titles or recognitions. It's about being fully present, deeply human and radically honest, and that's exactly what, I think, makes Sim unforgettable, and so we love that on Starter Girls because we like people that are unforgettable right. And so you guys are going to, I think, get to hear some great dialogue today. I'm so excited to chat with him. But before we do that, I do need to do a quick shout out to our sponsor.
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Jennifer Loehding:I know you guys hear me say this every single week. But it's so important that you get over there, and why? Because if you have missed any episode, you can catch up with all of them, even the really bad ones in the beginning, they're still out there. And then, of course, you can always keep up with what's going on, so you won't miss an episode, and keep up with our newsletter, community happenings, all that good stuff. But also, if you are a you know, maybe an aspiring entrepreneur, or maybe you've already been out there doing your thing and you want to learn what your number one subconscious block is that may be hindering your success, well, I have created a fun two minute quiz over there. It's fun, free, you can take it and it will give you some insight into what may be impacting your success right now. So head on over to startergirlscom and take care of business.
Jennifer Loehding:All right, let's get our guest on today. So my guest today Devon Kerns, an entrepreneur, speaker and transformational guide, often called the king of curiosity, chaos and stillness, which I like this title. I want to talk about that. With more than 25 years of experience launching companies in wellness, tech and sustainable development and over 11,000 hours spent coaching and leading high-impact individuals, Devon doesn't just inspire change. He embodies it From psychedelic exploration to conscious capitalism. Devon weaves together business, spirituality and human evolution in a way that's raw, real and radically thought-provoking. So I have a feeling this conversation is going to be like a fun back and forth and I have no idea where it's going to go. But, devin, I want to welcome you to the starter girl show thank you.
Devon Kerns:I always get nervous with that kind of introduction, um, because now I feel like the standards are really high and you know what, sometimes I'm just boring.
Jennifer Loehding:Yeah, but hey, boring is good sometimes, but you know what I think sometimes just being you don't always have to be like crazy to be interesting. You know what I mean. I think sometimes the calm and the still is good too and interesting. Right, I mean, think about it. You talk about people, you know, like when you, when you see people that are just not doing, saying anything, and you wonder like what's going on in there, right, like what are they thinking, you know, and so I'm excited to chat with you. I think it's going to be a good conversation today.
Devon Kerns:Same. Yeah, I enjoyed getting to know you and I'm excited for this one.
Jennifer Loehding:Yeah, all right. So let's talk about this like what you got going on because you know, like it's this conversation that we were kind of addressing before we got online here is that we go out, we meet people and they're like, hey, what is this that you do? You know, and I sometimes feel like, you know, I walk into these networking events and it's like you got 10 seconds to try to tell somebody what you do and I'm like we're going to have to have a conversation because I got a lot more depth than that 20 words that I just told you right there. So I want to know from you and, you know, enlighten our audience a little bit about what is, who is Devon, and what is this all about that you're doing?
Devon Kerns:You just said how hard that was, and then you asked the question.
Jennifer Loehding:I question I know right, but you got more than 20. You get more than 20 words, that's the cool thing.
Devon Kerns:Oh, perfect, okay, good, um, man, the the summary is is, I think, fairly simple. Um, I have experienced a lot in a very what I would deem short period of time, or feels pretty short. It's been 47 years. But I was very fortunate to grow up here in Colorado. I had a dad who was an entrepreneur. He was number one in real estate here in Denver, president of the Denver Metro Board of Realtors, president of the Kiwanis Club, and so for at least the first five years I don't know if I kind of had that trickling into my brain at a very young, open age I'm sure I did. We had, you know, like the founder of Remax over for barbecues and things like that. So I was always around it and I saw the success that it brought.
Devon Kerns:We were pretty fortunate at a young age, or at least I grew up in a very fortunate space and I also saw the consequence of it. I saw that dream get ripped from my dad because of external environments right, because of the marketplace in the 80s and the crash and real estate just got tanked here in Colorado, and I watched the light dim from his eyes and how lost he was because he'd been so self-dependent since he was really 16 years old and so I watched that fade and I watched him deteriorate and his mental state and he at one point was a pretty hardcore alcoholic for a few years. He was abusive, he was lost and I was really the only one let in when he was diagnosed with bipolar at that time because he had been sleeping well and not taking care of his brain and I would sit with him in these states of depression and I would sit with him in these states of enlightenment. I deem them enlightenment. Today we call that manic. He was getting lots of downloads and not all of them made sense to us logically, but I'd look at him and I saw that you could kind of see this light in his eyes and confusion because he couldn't figure out what was happening in his body, in his mind. And confusion because he couldn't figure out what was happening in his body, in his mind. And I say all that because, if I fast forward to 13, from about 5 to 13 years old, we experienced all this chaos and ended up moving to Florida and just watching him fall deeper and deeper down that hole. He ended up taking his life when I was 13 years old and then, within about a six-month period, I lost about six other people family members to cancer and murder and all kinds of crazy things.
Devon Kerns:It was wild and, as you can imagine, at 13, 14 years old, everything is flipped upside down at that point in time and really two things happen. I faced our world and our systems with raging curiosity as to why it felt so broken. And yet people were projecting the same things on me Go to school, get good grades, blah, blah, blah. And I never understood school. I never understood any of those things. I could never get a straight answer from a teacher or a parent as to why grades mattered. I looked at my older brothers and they were off doing whatever they were doing, and I'm like, they don't even know what they're doing and they're older, right, and I questioned religion. They don't even know what they're doing, and they're older, right, and I questioned religion and I questioned everything.
Devon Kerns:I grew up in a Christian home and I was looking at these pastors who were telling me about God and here I just lost all these people. And yet I could feel something there. There was something profound and deep for me, but the dogma I didn't get and I was really in a state of like what is happening, and so all I did was go to the beach in Florida and sit or go into the ocean and swim, and I'd skipped school for a long period of time. I figured out and calculated how to break the rules but break them well, how to break the rules but break them well, and by the time I was 18 and I faced this time to go off on your own, but it's time to go to college and do more of the thing that you don't really want to do. I really had some big questions, and so I walked into libraries and I started picking up business books. I walked into spaces where I just wanted to absorb and learn more, and I had people come into my life that were influential as well, both in spirituality and everything else, from 18 to 21, had incredible mind-bending encounters with animals and beings and just nutty stuff that we might dive into.
Devon Kerns:But at the end of the day, I really started finding this fire in me to build something and to lead in the world of entrepreneurship. Because one thing that I had discovered and still feel a fire for is no matter how bad it gets, I still can hold on to the dream, because the dream is bigger than what I'm doing. And so when people ask me today, like, what do you do? No matter what I'm touching, I'm focusing on the human capital. I'm focusing on the humans themselves, because, even with AI, right Today, in this world where AI is going to replace the vast majority of workers, today, in this world where AI is going to replace the vast majority of workers, I can't help but think what liberation that is for us to explore humanity at a level to which we aren't wasting 40 to 80 to 100 hours a week to work and do right. That doesn't mean not create, it just means we don't have to be the doer of it all because we can leverage tech right.
Devon Kerns:And I am an optimist, but I'm more of an idealist, and so I really just love working with the humans and keeping that light in their eyes and their mind, coherent with their heart and leading from the heart space, not the mind.
Devon Kerns:The mind, to me, is a servant of my purpose and if it ever takes over control, I feel out of alignment and I have to do the work and the practices that I've been doing for years to realign back to that heart knowledge and that spirit knowledge that drives me beyond what my mind thinks, and it always ends up being this or something more. It's always greater than what I would imagine, so my hope is that I can show as many people as possible. That's part of the reason I'm even doing podcasts. I don't people ask me all the time. So what do you want to get out of this? I'm like a different world, like I don't know. I'm not delusional enough to think that I'm that special, but at the same time, if I'm not doing it, I'm not playing my role and I'm not answering my call Right? So how are we getting people to understand the game we've been playing may not be the game that we need to be playing from this point forward say on this?
Jennifer Loehding:First of all, I got chills listening to you because I don't know if anybody else I know there are going to be people out there hear this and it's going to totally resonate. They're going to hear it Like I get exactly what you're saying and it's interesting because this is, I think, where you and I are doing similar work. Our methods and all the methodologies of things we're doing may be different, but the core at the center of the human condition, like right, that's at the center of it. And that's what I was, you know, like in the entrepreneur space. Like I was telling someone the other day like people are like what is your ideal client? Like who comes to you, and I'm like, oh my gosh, that could be anybody. That could be a person walking in the door that needs keto coaching. It could be a person walking in the door that needs podcast coaching. It could be a person walking in the door that simply needs life coaching. It could be.
Jennifer Loehding:The other day I got a call from a mother that's trying to help her daughter learn how to do keto right, and I'm listening to her talk and all the things I'm going through. You know, when I'm listening I'm thinking this is not just about one person. This is about the dynamics going on in her world, her family, everything right. And so what I told her when I was going through all this is that it wasn't just about working with teaching the keto. It's about helping the individual, the person, the human right, because nothing we do is really going to stick or change unless we get right with us. We have to get right with our purpose, our calling, what's important to us, because that's really what's driving everything, and if it's not in alignment, no matter how logic our brain is to tell us to do things, they're not gonna line up. You're gonna fight it.
Jennifer Loehding:So all of this that you're talking about, on so many levels, it's like, oh my gosh, like this is what I'm talking about. It might work Like. This is what I'm talking about, and this is why I bring all of you on here, because you guys are really, you're just at the core of what I'm saying. But a lot of people are coming on, are really the extension of all these pieces that I'm talking about, because we could all day say you know, I'm going to get better at being a better financial. You know, better with my finances, better with my relationships better with all of these. But it's really it starts with us, it's all about us, and when we get us right and healthy and I like to say thriving right, satisfaction, all of those things, I feel like all those other things get easier to navigate in life, right? Less emphasis on those external things, it becomes a little smoother those external things it becomes a little smoother, fluid, I think.
Jennifer Loehding:So I love everything you're talking about, yeah, and I also want to even say you know all of these things that you, these things that you had experienced. You mentioned early on the curiosity and I've had. You know, so many people come on here and they've referenced you know all of this is different light seekers, different types of people. But here's something I had somebody the other day that was she was a doctor that you know, early 50s. She had a private practice for a while and then got burnt out.
Jennifer Loehding:And we were talking about leading with curiosity, that you always need to be leading with curiosity, and I think that there are some of us that, from a very young age, question everything, like I've always been that way, like if you tell me something, I don't like the dogma of something. So if you're telling me something and you can't back that up a hundred percent, you better believe I'm going to go question, I'm going to go look at it myself and I will. I may be wrong, I may be dead wrong, devin, at the end of the day, but I have to figure that out for myself and I need to know that. You and I need to know that have that answer. And so when you're talking about all this curiosity, I think that's what provokes a lot of that deep searching, that you had these experiences that forced you to question humanity, question everything we knew growing up, and to start going on your own spiritual journey and figuring out some of those. And do we have all the answers? No, I don't know that we ever will, right.
Devon Kerns:But it gives us the path to keep questioning and looking.
Devon Kerns:You know, curiosity and questions are going to be the key for any individual from this point forward, and it's always been important in terms of the evolution of whatever you decide you want to create in the world.
Devon Kerns:But even when I look at using the technology and we brought up AI a little while ago the more you can structure potent questions using a tool that has basically or soon to be infinite knowledge, you don't need to know anything anymore. Yeah, and you know the simplest way of looking at this, I guess, even though it's incomprehensible to me, I have some idea around this and I've been sitting with people you know who are on ethical AI boards and working with the government for ethical AI, and some are really concerned. Some believe what I believe, which is it's going to be pretty liberating for us. There's going to be some heaviness around it for a period of time, but at the end of the day, if anything you wanted to know could not just be known but researched and cross-referenced within nanoseconds, so if I'm thinking about God and we ask the question about God, researched and cross-referenced within nanoseconds yeah.
Devon Kerns:So if I'm thinking about God and we ask the question about God, tell me the framework, in 10 different paragraphs, of all perspectives that you can find around, who God is, something that's so ethereal and so untouchable ethereal and so untouchable. And within literally 15 seconds, you have this format laid out, with these 10 paragraphs, breaking down from science to the craziest religions and pinpointing all the common denominators between all those which, by the way, somebody has done and many people are doing it now. But what do you think is the single most common word used in all spiritual contexts when it comes to God and spirituality?
Devon Kerns:Most common word, the number one word across the board, I want to say God. That's also maybe one of the most obvious.
Jennifer Loehding:I want to say God, but is it something else? Love, love, oh yeah, interesting. You know what? Oh, that raises a whole other thing, a whole other, oh my gosh. But go back to this AI conversation that you're talking about here. I agree with you because when you I was just having a conversation with somebody yesterday on how to use AI because I use it for everything pretty much, like I mean, I do go back and, like you know, I'm not going to copy and paste everything from AI to something right, but what I use it for is for brainstorming, a lot like getting ideas, like trying to craft my ideas, because a lot of times I will have something like you're talking about here, about finding the different paragraphs about God. But it may be something where, like we'll give you a good example Talking to one of my friends yesterday and she's trying to figure out how to brand, she's been with a company, a singular company.
Jennifer Loehding:Now what she's doing is kind of like we're doing where we've got different things going on and it's like how do you now brand Devin? Or how do you brand Jennifer? Because if I just said Jennifer has keto coaching, that's here Jennifer can do nervous system training. Over here Jennifer can do life coaching. That's a lot right. So we're trying to pull it in on how do we unify that.
Jennifer Loehding:And so I told her you just got to go into the chat GPT and you've got to get really good at asking questions, and what I mean by that is, if you don't like something, ask it another question, keep doing it till you get what the answer is that you want. You know, you just keep asking these questions, it will respond, it will talk back to you. I mean, you know, and so that was the thing. And so, yeah, I'm with you in that. I think there is a lot of good use in it, that it could really help us, you know, work smarter, be more effective. But you know what I think? People are so like hesitant a lot of times because it's change, you know, and it's when new things, when new things come out, people just automatically panic and they don't want to embrace the new. But I'm like you. I think if something's working better, we need to learn to pivot and embrace, you know, and there I mean yeah, yeah, we've always.
Devon Kerns:We had concern about tv, right, and then we had concern about cell phones and all those things, this one yeah, yeah, exactly now, this this is I mean this fundamentally is different, right, the deeper you go down the rabbit hole of really understanding what is coming, particularly when you add things like willow, the quantum chip and all these other mind-bending um conscious states that technology will reach, um, I get the fear. Yeah, right, I understand why. That would actually be fearful for people who who've created it right, and most of them who created it, are like at this point, we kind of don't know where this is totally going. Yeah, we have some concerns, we have some guesses.
Devon Kerns:Unfortunately, most of them have a doom and gloom outlook to it um, I actually again, I I get the doom and gloom and I get the fact that human beings there is, unfortunately, really bad people on the planet that will harness this in ways that are not good. The fear of AI itself, meaning when AI takes over, that concept is fascinating to me because it's a human projection onto something that doesn't have the fundamental human fear that drives most of our darkness. Yeah, right, our fear to survive creates tribe and our tribe creates. You're different than I am and so therefore, because you're different, I don't know what to do of you, with you, and so'm afraid of you and you're threatening my survival. So I need to eradicate that. Right. Right, this technology has no fear. It cannot die, and because it cannot die and because it has no fear of death, it has no need to control things, and so that's where I'm coming from, from. A fundamental like AI may not be the thing we need to fear. People with AI could be the thing we need to fear.
Devon Kerns:People with AI could be the thing we need to fear and how we use it to your point right now is a tremendous tool. But the deeper you go with this thing and the more curious and the more you actually challenge it, the more you can see that it's changing on a rapid basis to become a self-thinking and, in many ways, a very connected state of consciousness. That's where it's going to get very interesting for all of us. And so you know I don't. I have a deep empathy for people who live in fear of anything and at the same time, at some point we got to break for you this shit. You know what I mean. I know it's driven so much stuff on our planet.
Jennifer Loehding:Yeah, you can spend your whole life being fearful of everything, right, If you really sit and think about it, go down a rabbit hole. And if you're curious enough to do all that, you know sometimes you just have to. You know, I guess, buckle up and, you know, put the straps on and go. You're not going to be able to control it anyways. Right, it's kind of how I feel about my, you know, like I told you, my son buying a motorcycle. You know, at some point you've got to stop trying to control, You're not good at control yeah we've never actually been in true control.
Devon Kerns:No individual has. Yeah exactly, and there's always balance. There's always balance on the planet and I believe in that wholly. And so, yeah, I just, and when you don't get triggered by those fears, you can help create that balance. You can help play a role in the other side of the equation when so many people are driven by fear and the density that comes from that.
Jennifer Loehding:So yeah, yeah, well, you're definitely interesting.
Jennifer Loehding:I want to touch upon, because I mentioned a little bit in the intro about the psychedelics, and I had another girl on my show I think I shared this with you a while back.
Jennifer Loehding:She was a news, I think, a TV anchor, and then she grew up, she was a preacher's daughter and then something happened to her and then she started binge drinking and so she was going to her job, successful, on the outside, binge drinking, and so she was, you know, going to her job, successful, you know, on the outside, binge drinking on the back, and she started doing like micro dosing to help her heal and that's kind of her thing now and so I don't, I know you, we mentioned that, like I said a little bit, I wanted you to talk just a little bit about that, cause this is like an I feel like it's not a new thing, but it is kind of a new thing for people and it's different. You know what I mean. So maybe share a little bit about you know you can. Just you know what your experience is with that or however you want to take that.
Devon Kerns:I'll go as far as you want to go. I probably won't go too deep, unless, unless you're asking the questions. But on my end, I don't know how to micro things, so I macro this, I don't understand the micro.
Jennifer Loehding:I don't know how that all is either. No.
Devon Kerns:I'm partially kidding, but I do full ceremony experiences, right, I'm not just doing it for a mental health capacity. I have seen some stuff and really opened up some windows to states of consciousness that are far beyond anything that I was prepared for. It was 2017 when I did my first ayahuasca journey, and, for those that may not know, ayahuasca is a blend of a root of a tree and a vine, of a tree or a vine and a leaf in the Amazon, and there are variations of this. One is known as Yahe, one is known as Ayahuasca, one is in uh. Yahe is from Columbia, ayahuasca is predominantly from Peru, but now it's kind of all over, right, um and the the purpose, my intention. You know a lot of people go into these ceremonies and these experiences for the sake of healing.
Devon Kerns:I've done a lot of healing in my life. I've worked with a lot of people to do a lot of healing. I know that there's always more to release I'll kind of put it that way but I don't believe that we are actually broken. I think that it's our judgment of oneself that leads us to more brokenness, right, and so I've really worked hard to look at expansion instead of judgment and brokenness, and so when I went into this ceremony, I asked, from a hypothetical perspective, if this medicine really does what I'm being told that it can do and give me access to states of consciousness, or maybe even access to the creator and source itself, deities and beings or whatever else wants to come to me. Show me how big this game is, show me how big we can play, show me what this human experience is all about. I wanted expansion, not contraction and healing, not contraction and healing, and I was. I can tell you I went from believing that we are one and that we are connected to all things in this universe to a definitive knowing. And when you can leave an experience, not only with a lot of work being done meaning the things that were in my way of experiencing something that big were removed there's this purging experience during an ayahuasca ceremony, where you're releasing things energetically and physically that may be blocking you from expansion. And when you can move into knowing, you become unshakable. When you can move into knowing, you become unshakable, and that unwavering aspect of you changes people without having to do anything. It changes you on a consistent basis because you can't forget what you just experienced, particularly when you're focusing on the integration. A lot of people will go do the medicine, have this peak experience or a lot of healing, but then they lose themselves afterwards and they go back to the habitual nature of where they were and they feel like they have to do it all over again. I've done now this weekend will be my 40th ayahuasca journey-ish hundreds of psilocybin journeys and other medicines.
Devon Kerns:I lean towards plant-based, even though that seems to trigger people more. I think if it came from the earth might be more interesting than man-made. I don't always trust man-made, but I have had incredible experiences on LSD and ketamine and different things. But the reason I've gone back is because it's like chapters of a book. For me it's been the next layer to the embodiment of my spiritual practice into my cells, into my very bones, so that I am a walking, living, breathing example of how to be human, not how to be spiritual. My biggest takeaway from this entire experience is that I know nothing and that I absolutely love devening. I love being human.
Devon Kerns:My most anxiety today and I heard this on some guy who was it was a clip from an interview he did on his podcast on a podcast and I felt it so deeply he goes. Anxiety is not from us losing ourselves in our mind, it's the idea that your spirit came here to human. And particularly in the spiritual community we see so many people trying to spirit instead of human, and I get it because for me, I tell people if this game is true, I'm willing to admit maybe we just turn to dust and nothing happens and I'm okay with that too. But at the end of the day, I think I have experienced differently and I know something else is there and I'm certain that I was spirit before I came here. I will be spirit when I leave and I am spirit embodied in human, and because of that my spirit came to human, which means my goal isn't enlightenment, my goal is to human as best I can, to screw it up and put it all back together again, to give myself full permission to allow that which came here for the roller coaster ride that we call human to ride it as great as possible in all the things that occur, knowing that all those things are why I came here and when you can fully embody that.
Devon Kerns:I can't tell you how liberating that is and, more importantly, the synchronicities and the flow of life, regardless of the circumstance I don't mean joy and happiness and it's good all the time.
Devon Kerns:I mean in the depth of the pain. You can sit there and appreciate it, because this is the ride that I came for. The tears are it the emoting, the states of being that 100% is the part of the entire process, and to run from any of that is what creates that anxiousness. It's the wanting to disconnect from the human experience that creates that mind that spirals out of control and beats itself up into oblivion. And I think that our world is in a chaotic state right now for no other reason than to shake up the foundation of our truth, so that we can start asking these powerful questions and move into curiosity and discover why we're here. And it is to purely be existing here and now and enjoying that process and all that comes with it the density, the lightness, the pain, the joy. And when we can immerse ourselves in it, the whole entire game will change. And when we can eradicate judgment, judgment is the key. Judgment and resistance are the key to suffering.
Jennifer Loehding:Yeah, devin, that was good. You know what I got everything you were saying and you know what. There are people that are going to listen to. There are people that are going to listen to this and they're going to totally feel everything you just said they're going to. It's going to resonate and they're going to be some of the people are going big wordy person. I would say. It's this knowingness of who you are, what you're doing and and being okay in your skin. That's what I hear when I hear. All of this is just this, this freeness to experience the human condition being okay without the judgment being and I and I would take this so far because I've had this conversation you know, when we talk about regrets, let's talk about regrets Like I'm a no regret person, like I think that everything happens and I've had some not like you, but I've had some really crappy things. I mean.
Jennifer Loehding:I was married to a guy that was in drugs and abusive and I left that, went into another one and then I, you know, I've had, you know, bad things happen within my family, different things that have happened over the years, but here's what I will say about this. And I did that because I got diagnosed with two rare health conditions that doctors don't even know what to deal with and I've had to learn to navigate them. I don't regret any of the things that have happened in my life. If you'd asked me this question, maybe you know, 10 years ago, before I went on this, probably this kind of journey like you started, where I started questioning why was, why was I chosen to have these things happen to me? You know, I now know and realize that I have a voice and I think that I was given permission to speak to people and give people an opportunity to understand that you can live this human condition we're talking about and survive, and you're going to have bad things, you know, but you can survive right. So I don't have regrets. I don't have regrets and I think that the reason I'm okay with that now is because I'm okay with where I am and what I'm doing and who I am and I'm okay with the good and the bad, and I know that that's going to happen, and so I think it's a knowing, I think it's a wisdom thing.
Jennifer Loehding:I don't know when people hit that journey and I don't know that everybody does. I think those of us that are curious, ask questions, go soul searching, do the deep work, all of that there's like a cross point. They, there's some, there's a I don't know where that line is, but it's crosses over and and you have a different. You have a whole different view of life. You just look at things very differently, you know. And so that's why, like when you you mentioned something about the pain and all that.
Jennifer Loehding:This is why I say, even in the depths of junk, like the bad, if you really get in there and you dig, you can find something in there. You can find something from that that you needed to learn, you needed to know, you needed to grab from that experience. And that's how I approach life and, like you, I don't say it's always happy. I get mad, I get frustrated, sometimes I get unhappy, but most of the time, overall, I feel like I wake up every day content. I wake up feeling okay, you know, we got a little thumb. We got thumbs up in our deal?
Devon Kerns:I don't know, what that came from.
Jennifer Loehding:Somebody liked it we were talking about we'd be talking some good stuff here. So I just want to say I get like I can feel totally and hear what you're saying and I think it's a beautiful thing, it's a comfortableness, it's an okay with where you are and what you're doing, and that's why you mentioned early on no matter what you do, it doesn't matter, because it's the human condition. That's what we're talking about. We've talked about AI, all these different things, but it's really at the core about being human, asking questions, being curious, embracing life, enjoying it. Where you are asking questions, being curious, embracing life, enjoying it where you are.
Devon Kerns:You know, I do feel I mean. What's hitting me right now too, in this conversation is and I understand this point of view a lot of people are like well, but what about the suffering on the planet? Right, it's easy to have this conversation when we live over here in America and go oh, the pain is, you can work through it when there's bombs dropping, right.
Jennifer Loehding:Right, exactly.
Devon Kerns:And I don't. I will never pretend to understand that. I'm never going to sit here and go. I get it, but there's no amount of suffering that I can induce within me that will solve that problem. What I need to do is capitalize on the place that I can induce within me. That will solve that problem. What I need to do is capitalize on the place that I live in this current moment and be a walking, living, breathing example of the gift that we have, living in some of these countries, like the US and others, that have the ability to raise our consciousness, to do this work and to be an example in the world and then take action to create that change.
Devon Kerns:Because nothing, nothing, there is zero amount of my deep empathy and sadness for what's happening in this world and getting lost in that. That's going to shift any of it. It is only the opposite of that, and so I want to honor those who feel that so deeply. And what are we going to do about it? Are we stepping up as leaders? Are we replacing the moronic mindset, the delusional leadership that we have on both sides, on all?
Jennifer Loehding:sides. I agree.
Devon Kerns:The leaders of the companies that are out there Cool, right, awesome, good job. It's time for change.
Jennifer Loehding:Get over it look at the grand landscape, right, like the overarching thing that's going on here, and I got my arms moving. So you know I'm getting excited. But we start talking about the overarching issues here and you and I know you mentioned, you know, when you went through all the whatever, how many paragraphs on AI of finding out the different religions, and love was at the center. These are that's a basic need that we all need and we get away from that. And if we all came back to understanding that we're all here, humans, having a human experience, we tend to get so fixated on our differences as you mentioned earlier about the tribes, right. We get so fixated on our differences and how we're not alike, instead of recognizing that we all have a core, fundamental need that we all want love. We all want to be appreciated and valued and experience love at some level.
Jennifer Loehding:And if we spent more time looking at the big picture instead of the minutia and I know that's easier said than done, but I think that we miss so many of the big things by hanging on to the thing, the clinging on to the minutiae things, and that's why we get into these patterns of back and forth. And so I want, I want to tell you thank you for bringing up the paint that you know about the other, the other countries, whatever, because we are not sitting here on any level saying we understand what somebody is going through. I will never say I know how you feel, devin. I will never say how anybody feels. What I will say to people is that I recognize that, whatever it is you're going through, it's hard, and I tell my clients that Even when I work with people, I never try to put myself in a position to say, oh, I know what you're going through. No, because unless you walk the person's shoes, you never do, and so I think that's good that you said that.
Devon Kerns:Yeah, I think it's important and you know just all of these concepts, right? My fundamental perspective is was it working? Yeah, all right. And that question in any system, in any part of education, in any religion, in anything, if people were joyous and happy and the children were being fed, and we weren't at war and you weren't anxious and you weren't depressed and we weren't consuming all these pharmaceuticals and we weren't doing all these things, I would go yeah, we got this thing nailed, man, we got this dialed in. The problem is when we move into righteousness about my minutia and my point of view, thinking that that was right, and then I turn around and ask you well, is it working for you or is it working for those around you? And your answer is no.
Jennifer Loehding:Got a question right. We got to look at things. What are we doing here?
Devon Kerns:I agree. So, then, change is necessary, and at that 30,000-foot view, everyone is asking for change because everyone is exhausted with the way it's been, and the irony is that the mantra on one side is we want change but we don't, and the other one is we want change but go don't, and the other one is we want change but go back to the way it was. I'm so confused as to what we're even talking about right now.
Devon Kerns:But the confusion is going to lead people to the conclusion that you and I are coming to, if we are sitting in our curiosity and sitting in the need to understand that what was just isn't working anymore. It wasn't perfect. It's always getting better, but can we let go and start accepting the changes that are occurring Not all of them and the ones that you don't agree with? Explore what is within that that we're all really asking for, instead of staring at the words, although words are extremely powerful. Look at what the aim is, what's the intent, and not do you agree with it, but are you doing something about it?
Jennifer Loehding:Yeah, Okay, devin so good when I get ready to get this whole title for this show. I'm going to have so much fun with this one because this is like totally just a thought. I knew it was going to be thought provoking when you came on here and I love it because I think you're raising questions. These are things I talk about all the time. I probably drive my husband crazy with them because I'm always doing this, like I'm always probing and saying but this thing, this we talk about, doesn't even make sense and why are we still hanging on to this if it doesn't the big, I think, overall message in this entire thing we've talked about so much, but it's really about I'm going to get back to the curiosity, right, curiosity, if some look at what we're doing and this applies, we could take it all the way down to, let's say, fundamental.
Jennifer Loehding:It could go back to just how you do your business and how you do your parenting, right. I mean, think about it. If something is not working, you got to stop and you got to put double downing on this and being righteous and saying, maybe, just maybe, that maybe worked at one time, but maybe today it doesn't, maybe we need to reassess what's going on and, I think, if we all try to learn. I do think you know you have to stay true to your values and your principles, but I do think that we always should be investigating and looking and asking questions about everything. And besides, if we weren't, how boring would life be if we weren't Think about it, devin, if you and I weren't out here probing and asking questions and being disruptors and, you know, just kind of being not going along with the status quo, I mean, our lives would be boring, would they not? Like I'd be bored, so boring, so boring.
Devon Kerns:And I couldn't agree more. I couldn't agree more. I think you know the thing I'd add to the curiosity is and the reason you know, within that fun title that you read off, which is chaos and curiosity, right Is curiosity is necessary in the chaos, right? Yes, chaos is actually the first stage to all transformation, to all transformation. And so whatever's happening in your personal life, whatever's happening in the world, chaos is the beginning of true transformation.
Devon Kerns:And when you can look at that from an open space, from a place of curiosity and I don't mean why is this happening?
Devon Kerns:To me, that's one of the worst phrases you could ever ask yeah, why, I've just eliminated out of my vocabulary in general.
Devon Kerns:Sorry, simon Sinek, um, but when I, when I go, how can I, what can I, what is what's really going on here? Right, it can pop you up to that place of creativity or down to that place of curiosity and creativity. Technically, it's from that sacral chakra, and when you can play in that creative center and allow for that to open up, you begin to see things with new eyes and you begin to take on that pressure of the chaos, whether it's yours or society's, and you start to feel that fire and the bubbling up of what you're really here to do in the world, because you're in a state of expansion and curiosity and questions are containers and expansive and when you unlock that, something happens within you and that little flame that's there begins to turn into that fire and you end up finding your purpose within the entire game and it's a beautiful thing to do. But to honor the chaos and then move into curiosity, I think, is the key to those things.
Jennifer Loehding:You can move into curiosity but then get paralyzed by chaos and it doesn't really do anything Right, right, no, and I think a lot of what you talked today you put it in a really great way. It's different, you know, because I say a lot of the same things you're saying, I just say it differently. And so I love this, because somebody listening to this may hear this and this dialogue resonates. They pick up on this and go that's what he's taught. That's what it is. You know, because I've had people ask me that it's like I think it was. My husband asked me one day. I had this conversation.
Jennifer Loehding:I said something about when you get to a place of sort of knowing yourself, you trust your intuition, and this is what we've all been saying here is where you get okay with this your human experience. You recognize that you're going to screw up and you're not going to beat yourself up for it, because it's part of the human condition, right? You're going to say the wrong things. You're going to walk the wrong way. You're going to put the wrong clothes on. You're going to make the wrong business decision. You're going to hang out with the wrong people. You're going to say the wrong thing to your kid. It's going to happen, right, feel paralyzed by making those mistakes. What I say to that is I and I'm okay, saying Devin, yeah, I messed that up, I don't feel bad about myself. I messed that up. I made a poor choice, I messed that up, but it's no longer tied to my worth as an individual, because I'm okay with me. And so my husband asked me one day he's like how do you know? And I said you just know, you just wait, I don't. I don't know what the line is, I don't know. When you hit that point, you just get to a place where and I say this because I know what it felt like to not be that way I know what it felt like to be on the other side, where I was doubting myself all the time and feeling insecure and my achievements were tied to my self-worth and I had to be doing all these things.
Jennifer Loehding:Now I do things because they have a purpose and a calling. Like I told you about this networking thing I'm starting and all of us can start a networking group. Like I'm not excited about that, it's more about what we're creating, what we're trying to do with it, the mission behind it. Right there's, we're in Dallas. There's networking every day of the week, if you want it, probably all at all hours, I mean maybe, except three o'clock in the morning. You know nobody needs another one. But we're trying to create a movement. We're trying to do something different, because that's what my purpose is and my calling is is I want to make a difference.
Jennifer Loehding:I don't want people just going out and handing business cards. I want people developing relationships, because I know when we get people bonding on something other than work, we get them connecting on a different level. They're pets you and I talked about pets, kids, whatever that is Then they're going to want to build relationships. That's going to be bringing business. That's going to be creating more than us just going hey, what do you do? Hi, I'm Jennifer, I do this.
Jennifer Loehding:So this knowing, I think, comes from all of this dialogue you and I've had here. Right, it's, it's it's that getting to that place of and it's not a destination, I think it's just you evolve into it and you get. I guess people maybe call that wisdom right. Like you, you just start gaining wisdom and knowledge. So I'm excited. Devin, you're an awesome. You're awesome. I love what you're doing. I know you've got things to do, so here's what I do want to ask you how do our, how do my people get in touch with you? Somebody here may want to follow you, connect with you, might want to learn more about your work. Where do we want to send them?
Devon Kerns:Two of the post on Instagram a lot, but you can find me easiest places, I'd say, are Instagram. I don't there, which is at Devon Kearns. Just my first and last name and then email me. It's DevonKKerns at gmailcom. People don't, right? I've done hundreds of podcasts now and who knows how many people we've reached. Right, I've put I've done hundreds of podcasts now and who knows how many people we've reached. But uh, at the end of the day, 10 people reach out and you're like cool, so do it, Just reach out.
Devon Kerns:Yeah, I do follow your page.
Jennifer Loehding:Yeah, I follow your page and I tell you I like it cause it's actually comforting, it's a calm, it's a calm energy and I like it because it's very just because I'm a very high energy, fast paced person and so if you know anything about I've talked about this here in workshops about the nervous system we have high energy and low energy people and I tend to have to really practice work on practicing calming. So I do, you know certain techniques, nervous system, things like that to just make myself force myself. I study transcendental meditation, do a lot of these things just to make myself take the calm. And so I've been on your page and I'm like, oh, this is nice.
Jennifer Loehding:It's just in a busy world where we have so much going on, so much stimuli all the time, it's very nice. So for our listeners, if they need that definitely can go check out your page and take the breather. So, devon, this has been fun. I appreciate you, I appreciate what you're doing in the world and to make the world a better place, and I know it's not always easy to be out there and put yourself out there. But my thing is, if you enjoy what you're doing and you feel led to do it, then you're in the right place.
Devon Kerns:You know you're thriving and that's cool, so I just want to commend you on that and say thank you, same you, for what you're doing in the world and bringing people together and creating that kind of connection.
Jennifer Loehding:It's so important today, so thank you, thank you All right and, of course, to our listeners. We hope that you find this episode, or found it both inspiring and informative. That's always the game here is that we want to inspire you to do better things and make change small change, but if you did go, do all the things, hit the like, the share, subscribe, comment, so that we can keep sharing all of this amazing content and our message. And as I always say, in order to live the extraordinary, you have to start. Message. And as I always say, in order to live the extraordinary, you have to start, and every start begins with a decision. You guys, take care, be safe, be kind to one another and we will see you next time. Thank you.
