Starter Girlz Podcast
Welcome to the Starter Girlz Podcast—your go-to source for inspiration, entrepreneur motivation, and empowering conversations. While we’re passionate about helping women succeed in every area of life—career, money, relationships, and wellbeing—we also celebrate the remarkable journeys of individuals from all walks of life who are chasing bold dreams and building businesses.
Each episode features inspiring success stories from trailblazing women and extraordinary men, offering practical advice, mindset strategies, and real-world insight into the startup journey and beyond.
Whether you're launching your next venture, striving for personal growth, or simply looking for motivation to keep going, Starter Girlz is here to guide and energize you.
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Starter Girlz Podcast
Burnout Cost Me Everything… But It Saved My Life (with Lisa Hammett, TEDx Speaker & Bestselling Author)
What happens when burnout doesn’t just slow you down but wrecks your career, your health, and your marriage? In this powerful episode of Starter Girlz, host Jennifer Loehding sits down with Lisa Hammett—a former corporate executive turned TEDx speaker and international bestselling author—who shares how hitting rock bottom became the catalyst for a complete life transformation.
After 26 years in the high-pressure world of corporate retail, Lisa found herself emotionally drained, physically unwell, and on the verge of losing everything—including her identity. Quitting her job without a backup plan led to bankruptcy, but it also marked the beginning of her path to healing, purpose, and long-term success.
What you’ll learn:
✅ The early warning signs of burnout that most people ignore
✅ How burnout shows up in your body, emotions, and relationships
✅ Why Positive Intelligence (PQ) is key to managing stress and mental overload
✅ How Lisa turned a breakdown into a breakthrough
✅ Practical strategies for rebuilding energy, purpose, and clarity
✅ Why self-awareness, mindset, and support systems are critical for recovery
✅ How to align your career with your strengths and passions
Lisa’s story is deeply personal and incredibly relevant for professionals, entrepreneurs, and caregivers navigating exhaustion, identity loss, and career transitions. Her insights and tools offer a real-life roadmap to bounce back from burnout and build a life filled with meaning and resilience.
🔗 Learn more about Lisa Hammett:
www.lisahammett.com
🎧 Love this episode?
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I was that toxic, negative person that you can't stand to be around because I was so miserable and that's what most broke up my marriage. And you can't expect to get anything positive in life if you're swimming in negativity. Right, I mean you have to shift your mindset, and I think that is really the number one thing that needs to shift when you're making that kind of evolution, because when you have that kind of mindset, everything else kind of falls into place. I mean, you start eating better, you start moving your body better, you know you just you show up as a much better person and you get curious and it all ties into what's in your head and I know for a lot of people that sounds really woo-woo, but it's the truth.
Jennifer Loehding:Welcome to the Starter Girlz podcast, your ultimate source of inspiration and empowerment. We're here to help women succeed in every area of their lives career, money, relationships, and health and well-being while celebrating the remarkable journeys of individuals from all walks of life who've achieved amazing things. Whether you're looking to supercharge your career, build financial independence, nurture meaningful relationships or enhance your overall well-being, the Starter Girlz podcast is here to guide you. Join us as we explore the journeys of those who dare to dream big and achieve greatness. I'm your host, jennifer Loehding, and welcome to this episode. Welcome to another episode of the Starter Girlz Podcast. I'm your host, jennifer Loehding, and wherever you are tuning in today, we are so glad to have you, and this show is all about celebrating those that step out, rise above challenges, lead with purpose and create success on their terms. And so let's talk about burnout, because I think that's a big thing. It isn't just about being tired. It's a signal that something deeper needs to change, and my guest today not only understands that truth, she's built a mission around it. After walking through her own health and wellness transformation, she's helping others take back control of their energy, clarity and purpose. And so how can you go wrong talking about those things. Right, we all want to be better at eliminating the burnout and, hopefully, not having to deal with it. So before we welcome her on, we do want to do a quick shout out to our sponsor.
Jennifer Loehding:This episode is brought to you by Walt Mills Productions. Need to add excitement to your YouTube videos or some expert hands for editing? Look no further. Walt Mills is the solution you've been searching for. Walt is not only your go-to guy for spicing up content. He's the force behind a thriving film production company with numerous titles in the pipeline. Always on the lookout for raw talent, walt is eager to collaborate on film and internet productions. With a background deeply rooted in entertainment and promotion, walt Mills leverages years of skills to give you the spotlight you deserve. Want to learn more about Walt and his work? Head on over to waltmillsproductionsnet and let your content shine All right and with that we do want to make a mention to head on over to startergirlscom, and over there you can catch up on any episode that you missed.
Jennifer Loehding:There are a lot of them. I just recently, the other day, noticed we have like 600 videos over there on that platform, so you can be in there for a while if you wanted to. The other good thing is you can sign up for our community newsletter and keep up with anything that's going out community news, of course, and then all future episodes, where you'll never miss one. And then, of course, if you are an entrepreneur or maybe you just want to know this, I do have a two-minute free quiz over there where you can find out what may be your number one success block that is keeping you stuck in place right now. It's free. Take you two minutes, it's fun and you might learn something new about yourself. So head on over to startergirlz. com and, as I always say, take care of business.
Jennifer Loehding:All right, it's time to welcome our guest on the show today. So Lisa Hammett, a transformational keynote and TEDx speaker, international bestselling author, positive intelligence certified coach and wellness expert, is joining us today. With 26 years of leadership experience in the high pressure world of corporate retail, lisa knows the cost of burnout and she's on a mission to end it, especially for professionals in healthcare and HR. After losing 65 pounds and reclaiming her own well-being, lisa left corporate to empower others to take charge of their health mentally, physically and emotionally. She's helped thousands create sustainable lifestyle shifts and is the author of From Burnout to Best Life, a global bestseller in 16 categories. And so, lisa, I am so excited to chat with you. You got so many happening, things happen. So welcome to the Starter Girls Show. Thank you so much, Jennifer.
Lisa Hammett:I'm excited to be here.
Jennifer Loehding:It's going to be fun.
Lisa Hammett:I'm so excited.
Jennifer Loehding:I always love my TEDx speakers because they're just good. You know, there's nothing more like when you do a podcast. I mean, I think you know I always say my objective. I have, like, really two main objectives when I do this show. One is to make sure my guests always have a great time. I like my guests to leave and be like man that was a fun podcast and I like my audience to be inspired and motivated to create change, right, and so I think that's the cool thing about this show is that we get to do that, you know, but I love my TEDx speakers because I think the other part of that is we have to have good conversation, and so I think that should be.
Jennifer Loehding:My third thing is that we need really good conversation, Right, absolutely. So let's talk about Lisa, because you've had, you know, we for our audience real quick. Lisa and I got to meet outside of the show, so I got to learn a little bit about her journey and we have a lot of parallels different things, but some some parallels here and so yours kind of started out in this wellness journey like healing yourself and getting healthy, and then you've taken that into now a space where you're working kind of in the corporate sector, in the HR departments and in the wellness departments, which I think is so huge. So I'd love for you to share with our audience a little bit about this journey, this segue, you know like what led to this and got you here.
Lisa Hammett:Absolutely so quick story. As you had mentioned, jennifer, I spent 26 years in corporate retail and I reached burnout and I ignored the wording fine and, you know, let my health just completely deteriorate, emotional and physical. I gained weight, I was depressed, I almost lost my marriage as a result and, in a moment of desperation, I just quit my job without a nurse's strategy, which I highly recommend that you do not do, because it resulted in bankruptcy down the road. But I share all that with you to say because now, because I have the resources that I do, I could have prevented it and I really am passionate about helping people not go through what I went through basically. So, yeah, my first priority on leaving was losing the weight and I did that. And then I became a wellness coach and I did that for, oh gosh, over 11 years.
Lisa Hammett:And then, you know, fast forward, there's the pandemic and people are coming to me that gain weight, they're stressed, they're burned out, and I realized I needed a lot more resources to be able to support these people. So I leaned into, obviously, my trainings, but also I discovered positive intelligence and that is what I'm certified in and I really discovered that it is an excellent resource to, you know, mitigate stress and other negative emotions in the moment. So I became a certified coach. I went through my life coaching credentials, so that's kind of what brought me to where I am today and I just kind of fell into the industry the healthcare and HR industry because they really resonated with my burnout story, because when I was in a different industry they have, you know, similar stressors and it's just ongoing all the time.
Jennifer Loehding:So, yeah, yeah Well, and to kind of, I guess, maybe piggyback on what you were saying. I mean, you mentioned, you know, not knowing this, you know, walking away from the job and then having the bankruptcy and not knowing this, like you did, recommend this, you would have done differently, but I think that's that's, that's how this goes, right. I mean, we all agree it's. You wouldn't know the information you today had you not gone through the experience, right, and so I think that's what makes this story so powerful. You know, I love stories, I'm always a sucker for stories and I think because when there's, you know, two people, people do two things. They either have a bad thing happen and they do nothing with it, they fall back into it, or they allow it to happen again, or maybe they weren't, they do nothing with it. And then there's the people that get that have a bad experience and they learn from the experience and they make some kind of transformational change.
Jennifer Loehding:But I just got off. I just, you know the episode I recorded before yours. We were talking about curiosity and chaos, right, and transfer. Chaos comes before transformation, right, and I think that's where we were kind of talking about this whole idea about leading with curiosity, and I had another person I interviewed not too long ago that kind of said the same thing about leading with curiosity, right? So when you have, like that, chaos happen, what do you do with that chaos? Do you lead with curiosity or do you do nothing? And you know, if you're leading with this curiosity, you're coming from a place of how can I do different, how can I show up differently, how did I cause this? What, what was my role in this? Like you're leading with this, this, what is to be taken from all of this, the extraction of this.
Jennifer Loehding:So I say all that to say that you know, basically to commend you, because I don't think that you know, we have to, we have to have all that to get where we are today. Right, in that. So I love it. I do want to ask you, you know, because we talked about this positive, what was it called Positive psychology or positive intelligence, which has a positive psychology? That's why I keep thinking that, because that's a whole other thing, this positive intelligence. I don't want you to tell us everything, because obviously that's why you do your workshops and people work with you, but maybe give us just a little. So our audience is kind of what is this whole positive intelligence thing she's talking about? Give them maybe a little quick, brief overview of that.
Lisa Hammett:Well, I'm going to tie it into what you just said about the leading with curiosity, because that describes the sage power. So in a nutshell, you know we have two sides of our brain. We have our left brain, analytical brain, designed for problem solving, but it also generates all that mind trash and that garbage and you know, stress, shame, blame, everything. And then our right brain, our sage brain, that's our positive brain and when we're swimming in that space we're curious. We're able to handle challenges with ease. You know we don't become the victim in it, we can see the big picture and we're just better equipped to lead and also to just go through life, you know, with ease.
Lisa Hammett:And I'm not saying that challenges go away by any means. They don't. They'll always be there. So developing positive intelligence and mental fitness is a key component of that. It is recognizing all that negative mind trash, that garbage that is fueling our behavior in very dysfunctional ways and oftentimes we're not even aware of it because it comes up from our subconscious Right. And it's being able to kind of quiet those negative emotions, because they don't always completely go away but you're able to manage them so you can shift to that positive stage perspective, so you can lead with empathy, you can respond with empathy, you can be curious, you can be happy, you can help be healthy, you know, fulfilled. So there's, there's different techniques that we can do. So you know people say, well, what's different? Because we call it PQ, and so how is PQ different from EQ?
Jennifer Loehding:You, know I've heard of EQ.
Lisa Hammett:Well, there are similarities to it, but the big difference with positive intelligence is that it's an operating system and it can be applied to different areas of life. So it can be leadership, it can be family development, it can be relationships, it can be just your overall health and well-being, and it's built on developing these mental fitness habits that stay with you through life. So, because you know, we and we talked about this when we got together, jennifer you know you go to these conferences or you go to these trainings and you, you're just enveloped with all this amazing information and you're like, wow, this is great. And then you leave and you get back into your life and you're like I don't remember anything. Yeah, you remember what you do with it, right, exactly. You remember maybe one thing right, right, a hundred percent. So you know, positive intelligence gives you the resources to make this lifelong application, which is great.
Jennifer Loehding:I love this and you know what. You know what's so great. It's like I've had two conversations with two different people today and I love it because it's like one was very like I don't even know how to like the words that I want to put it like picturesque, emotional, and it's similar. We're having similar conversations, but different conversations. Do you know what I mean? Like this is a very analytical and practical like step of conversation where this was more picturesque and I maybe I don't know how the word I'm looking for I'm going to have to go find the word there there's almost like the same things, but they're different, you know and so interestingly that you say this because I think I shared this with you when I was going through and trying to like you know cause I would go networking and I would have these people be like what are you doing?
Jennifer Loehding:I'm like, well, I'm a success architect because really what I do is I help make people make transformation that sticks. But I couldn't isolate what exactly what I was I doing. I knew in my mind what I was doing. I had to put a system together like you're talking about. I had to actually get some kind of a system so that I could say, ok, I have a four-step system now that can help me. That, I believe, can help people make transformation stick, because it's what I do. It's what I do. It's nothing magic, but it's all the resources I've pulled together and I've developed this out and figured out okay, these are the things that I know in my mind that have helped me create change. And it's things like understanding, like your value system, your strengths and your weakness. I mean, there's these things, these things that we have to work through.
Jennifer Loehding:But the point I'm trying to make is that it's what you're talking about. Like I would go and I'd hear all these things and I'm like, okay, that's great, one person over here is talking about core values and why you need to know that. One person's over here talking about Meyer Briggs and strength finders Okay, you need to know that. One person's over here talking about the five stages of adult development, which you need to know that. And I'm like, ok, I got to pull this together in a formula because I know all this and you're trying to.
Jennifer Loehding:You can't, that's too much and most people are not going to do all that work. So then I had to kind of bring that into. Ok, so what if we put this formula, like you're talking about these techniques or steps together that they can work through, and you're like, okay, this is now easy to understand. We have four things. We're thinking about all of these things, these modality things are in there, but we have these four basic things we're thinking about, you know, and it becomes more practical and rememberable for, or more memorable for, people and easier to apply in their day to day.
Lisa Hammett:Right yeah, Because you have these pillars. There are four pillars basically.
Jennifer Loehding:Yeah, yeah. So that's why I say I know when I talked to you, we were, we had these similarities in the kind of the work we're doing. But I love that you know you're certified in the, in the positive intelligence, because I think that this is so important and it's not just about in the workplace, right, it's really. I mean, it affects your entire life, it's how you show up in all of the relationships you navigate 100% because you know, yes, you might spend the forbid or just something.
Lisa Hammett:You know all that stress, that worry that's going to bleed into work and impact your work performance. So they're all intertwined and you can't just say, okay, I'm just going to put up this solid wall and when I step inside the office I will never have an emotional thought about my personal life. I mean, that's ridiculous.
Jennifer Loehding:Yeah Well, and you know, there was a time when we kind of, you know, had this whole idea that work and home life were, you know, keep your problems at home. And I mean, to some degree you've got to have the emotional intelligence to be able to walk into a place and not let that dominate. That's what we just said, right, Right. But really it's affecting you on a nervous system level. I mean, whatever's going on here is affecting you and it's changing the way you are operating, either physically or it's coming out in your mind. It's one way or another it's showing up, you know. And so I think this whole idea of learning to understand, I think the importance of why you need to know this and learning ways to get better at that, it's not just about the words that are coming out of your mouth, it's a physical manifestation, you know, like I've often said, you know, like a lot of my I say craziness, when I'm in the chaos, it will manifest into my health, it will show up in that way.
Jennifer Loehding:And when you're healthy, then it starts messing with the head and you've got a lot of things going on, and so this stuff is so important on so many levels. You know, and I think what you're doing is awesome. I love that you're going into the you know the corporate sector, because they don't I don't know they talk about this stuff as much, you know, and so yeah, I mean a lot of organizations don't.
Lisa Hammett:Some are getting pretty good at it and you know they have a wellness component. But then there's other organizations that say that they do have this wellness component, but then they never allow their workers to have the time to utilize the resources that they provide them.
Lisa Hammett:So there's a lot, and you know, with the whole mandates of having to go back in the office, you know this has really created a lot of issue for people because a number of the individuals who are being mandated to go back in the office were never hired to be in an office environment. They were in a work from home. Obviously, the ones who used to be in an office, they might not going to work from home. Obviously the ones who used to be in an office, they might not like the idea of going back. But hey, that's how they were hired. They were hired that way. Deal with it.
Lisa Hammett:And if you don't like that anymore, then go find something that's 100% virtual or hybrid, but there is such a vast majority of people that were not hired for that. And then you know they're not compensated for Trimble because obviously, you know there's a commute involved. Rarely do people live within five minutes of where they work. You know, it's just, it's limiting. And then there's the wardrobe. You know there's the wear and tear on the vehicle, I mean, and they're not compensated for that, so that's. And if you have kids, I mean, can't forget the kids, what do you do, you know, if you have smaller children. So it's, it's a big problem. It really is. And you know, one of the biggest benefits in the corporate sector is when they can allow that flexibility. And it's, it's just been blown up now with, you know, so many mandates coming from Washington. It's just a mess.
Jennifer Loehding:Yeah, I mean, people get. You know, one of the things we were talking about today and the previous is really about, you know, looking at change and asking the question do we need to make change? Right, like, do we need to bring about some change? And looking at the you know, the larger, grand picture of things, instead of being hung on. Hung on or clinging to We've always done it this way, so why would we change? You know, I think the smarter we get, the more knowledge we get, the more we evolve and we should be open to saying maybe we need to do things a little bit differently. You know, maybe we need to give them more time to to pour their wellness and because then they're going to show up happier and they're going to be more productive.
Jennifer Loehding:I mean, I like, at the very fundamental, I'll tell you this when I was in college, I worked for an insurance agent and I remember coming in, so I was going to school full time and then I would go in like three days a week.
Jennifer Loehding:I'd go in after, like from one o'clock to five o'clock, and then on the opposing days, I'd go in from eight to five.
Jennifer Loehding:On the days that I would show up for one to five, I would be like, listen, we jamming man, I had four hours to get that work done. Crank it out, and on the days when I had to be there from eight to five, it was like give me a break, like I was like poking, poking, poking, you know, because I was just more effective in that short time. And I'm not advocating that we need to do that with everybody, but I think the thing I'm trying to say is that sometimes we have to look at systems and the way we're doing something and say maybe this isn't working, maybe, you know, we need to assess it. But also, you know, if we get into just go back to what I was saying like strengths and weaknesses also recognizing that the people that we're working with, how they thrive, because some people like me who are high energy, can get a lot done in a very short amount of time, whereas I'm going to get bored very easily and if you tried to like I would.
Jennifer Loehding:I would die if, right now, if I had to go back to sit at a desk all day. I'm not begrudging anybody because I recognize we have to do the things we have to do, but oh my gosh, lisa, if I had to sit at a desk all day and be on a phone and type and have to sit at that desk, I think I'd go nuts. I would be like man, I am going to need like some music in here.
Lisa Hammett:Oh, I'm 100% the same way and I mean I like people and I enjoy. What I like about the work that we do is that you know it's it's diversive, so you know we go out and we speak or we coach, or you know. So some of it is virtual, obviously, but you know we, we dictate that we have control over them. We're not mandated to just sit for eight hours at a time and I would just die. Yeah, I couldn't go back to them. I just I couldn die. Yeah, I couldn't go back to them, I just I couldn't.
Jennifer Loehding:Yeah, I think it really comes to the not to yeah your values and then, where you know your strengths are right, like you know. I mean, could we sit in a chair all day? Yes, we could sit in a chair all day If we had. If we knew we had to do it, we could do it.
Lisa Hammett:It doesn't mean we're going to be happy. It exactly, exactly. And you know, I mean I. I believe that we were given certain strengths. Yes, and it's our ability, as we go through life, to really understand what those strengths are. What we're passionate about ties into the whole core values thing, and then we align that with what we're doing, and when all of those are in alignment, then that is when we're really showing up as our best self, we're leading in the right way and we're attracting the right people and we're serving, you know, truly in how we were meant to serve. Yeah, absolutely, I agree with you.
Jennifer Loehding:That's why I had to put all those pillars together, because it was like what is it that you know, like when you're trying to figure this out, like because it's not just one thing, it's not just get up and implement healthy habits.
Jennifer Loehding:You know, wherever your people come in, the door is where they come in. And both you and I, we entered this segue in a health place. From a health perspective, both of us had some kind of crisis going on that put us at the forefront of taking a moment to pause about how we were showing up, like well, how were we affecting our health, like what was actually causing this, and that kind of spawned the curiosity into a deeper you know, how are we showing up and how are we leading and how is that making a difference in the world around us? And so, yeah, I think when you start to do that and get into those places where you're asking those questions and, like you say, get into your purpose and that's, and you're not going to do that and get into those places where you're asking those questions and, like you say, get into your purpose.
Jennifer Loehding:And you're not going to do that.
Jennifer Loehding:unless you start asking questions, you're never going to figure that out unless you start getting curious and I think you know it goes so much to say when we talk about like this curiosity thing that sometimes we get so set in this idea of what we think we should be doing and how we should be, you know, moving about, and we're unhappy because that's the should, it's not aligning with the values and the strengths. You know. It's just I think I should be doing this because everybody else, I guess, is doing that, or that's what maybe mom and dad told us, or that's what the education told us, or whatever that is.
Lisa Hammett:So I'm with you on that. Yeah, that's setting yourself up for failure, in my opinion.
Jennifer Loehding:Yeah, that's setting yourself up for failure, in my opinion.
Lisa Hammett:Yeah absolutely Trying to conform to something. Yeah, and it's, and you know, really to find your purpose and your why you gotta. It's a little uncomfortable at first because you gotta ask yourself some tough questions. And you know I'm not saying don't do it, absolutely do it, but you have to take stock of where are you right now and to really get to where you want to be. It's scary, sometimes you just got to get mad. Yeah, exactly yeah.
Jennifer Loehding:I'm with you. So I want to know and this is going to be a no brainer, really a no brainer question for you but I think people that, listening to this, they look at you and me and these people that I bring on here and they think, well, you guys just got it all figured out because you're there. We're like no, we didn't. We've had to like kind of evolve to that place. Right, but maybe, as you know, moving from you know you were in retail and in this corporate sector for a really long time. Now me, I wasn't in the corporate as long. I've been out kind of doing my thing for a long time but somebody coming from that space into this, now I'm on my own. You know you worked through the whole bankruptcy thing. You did the health challenge. You know what were maybe some of the I guess, lessons you had to learn in that transition from corporate to entrepreneur.
Lisa Hammett:Well, I mean it ties back to you know what we were just saying of what are your passion, your core values, you know kind of thing, so that you can kind of move into something that better serves you and fulfills you as well.
Lisa Hammett:But I'll be honest, it was a lot of self-development. I mean, by the time I had reached burnout, I was so negative. I was that toxic, negative person that you can't stand to be around because I was so miserable and that's where I most broke up my marriage. And you know you can't expect to get anything positive in life if you're swimming in negativity. Right, I mean you have to shift your mindset and I think that is really the number one thing that needs to shift when you're making that kind of evolution, because when you have that kind of mindset, everything else kind of falls into place. I mean you start eating better, you start moving your body better, you know you. Just, you show up as a much better person and you get, get curious, and it all ties into what's in your head and I know for a lot of people.
Lisa Hammett:That sounds really woo woo, but it's true, I mean and I use this example all the time.
Lisa Hammett:It's like, how do Olympians, how do professional athletes, how do they win medals, how do they win trophies? It's because they have this vision in their head of what it's going to be like to win that. Or you know what they aspire most in life and you have to have that solid vision to kind of lead you. And then you know your goals and action steps. That's kind of you know what keeps you going, but the you know the compass. It's really that vision. It's a big question, so you have to develop that.
Jennifer Loehding:Yeah Well, and you mentioned, you know, being around the negative person. I think there's, you know, the negative from being burnt out and I think that's a really good, a good indicator that you're in burnout stage. But I think a lot of people don't really recognize that right, because it's not an overnight, it's a gradual process. You might be this happy person and then all of a sudden you get to that place where, like, you're just negative all the time and you don't even really realize it Right, you don't even realize you've made that transformation because it's been a gradual progression to a burnout.
Jennifer Loehding:And then, by the time you get to that you know, and I feel like all of us experience at some time or another that little bit of burnout where we're just like I'm just done and I'm like you can't. You know, like you just, and everybody handles it differently, like in your case that you know people walk away, they freeze, you know they all, they all do differently with that. But I think it's so important to recognize that because I will tell you, and you're probably like me, there's nothing worse like where we are to be around somebody that's negative, like that. Oh, my goodness, you just want to go nuts Cause you're just like everything is spiraling for you and if you just could change the way you're looking just a little bit, everything would, the whole, it would shift, everything would look differently, you know. But it's so hard because when you're in it, you're in it and you have to recognize it to get out of it.
Lisa Hammett:You know what I mean 100%, oh, 100%. And then when you do get out of it and you want to achieve what you want most in life, you really have to protect your energy, and if you're around people that suck the life out of you, you're not going to get what you want, you're going to be miserable, you're going to go back down that rabbit hole. So it's really aligning yourself with those individuals that are energy givers, not energy drainers.
Jennifer Loehding:Yeah, we used to say and you know, mary Kay, when we would bring people in our unit, it wasn't that we didn't like the consultants talking to each other, but we would always say like if you were going through something, talk to your upline because they were in a position where they could pour into you. Because a lot of times the consultants would be like girl you got to, oh, I got to, and then they just go back and forth, even on that energy, right. But if you would go to somebody like you're talking about, that's in a position and equipped to actually help you work out of that, they're going to be skilled enough to get you out of that and not keep that loop going of negativity, right. So I have a great friend here that I'm here locally. She's the one that we're starting the networking.
Jennifer Loehding:She's really good at redirecting, which and because both of us she's been, she was, she's been American 30 years, I was in 22. So we kind of know these little, you know these little hacks, but she is so gifted at redirecting people. I think that's one of her best, like she's a great friend anyways. But I just think that's a really good skill that she's developed, because when you're in those situations and you've got that going on. You know how, as a leader, do you navigate that and move that conversation so that we get out of that. You know, out of that loop right, and right now I'm sitting here thinking about the five dysfunctions of a team.
Lisa Hammett:We know a lot of my going to say when you were saying that is no big of those meetings, you know that you're going into whether you're the leader, or maybe it was before you actually became the leader and it just turns into this toxic, down this rabbit hole, because one person brings up something, instead of thinking something constructively and sticking to the agenda, they go off on this rabbit hole tangent, and then it just everybody in that room, it just is this toxic spiral and you leave and you're like what the heck happened?
Jennifer Loehding:I was gonna say, you and I are the ones over there going really like, seriously, what's happening right now? Like that I have been, it was meetings and I've been like now, like I seriously can't take it. I I will I'm not very good at hiding like my, my, you know, I'm getting disgusted. I'm going to be like I got to get up, like I'm going to go to the bathroom or go make a phone call or something, cause I can't sit in this energy Like I just cannot stand.
Jennifer Loehding:And you know what's interesting, lisa, is like you mentioned you know you being negative. I mentioned you know you being negative. I've been that way too, like I I'm not going to, I mean we've, I feel like we've all kind of I mean maybe there are some people that never they are fortunate enough that they don't. But I think most of us experience those kinds of things and I and I think we're humans and so there are times that we're negative. But I think there's a difference between being a negative occasionally and just being, and also you know, when we're like that, how we're affecting other people.
Jennifer Loehding:Because when I think you start you know I talk a lot about this when I worked with this mentor this whole subject object shift right when you start recognizing that you are controlling. I like to use kind of this idea of a game controller like you're the character in a game right Now. If you're looking on the outside in, you're controlling your character. Your character is going to navigate the outcome of the game, so it's also going to navigate what's going on around you. So it may not directly influence everybody's move, but you're having an impact on everybody you come in contact with and so if you're showing up and excuse my friends you're being an ass with, and so if you're showing up and excuse my friends, you're being an ass.
Jennifer Loehding:You're those people negatively, right you know. So we have to be conscientious of how we show up, and this goes back to what you're talking about, this positive intelligence, being aware of how you're behaving, it does In speaking engagements when I'm talking about we call them saboteur traits and they're like controller, stickler.
Lisa Hammett:You know the perfectionist, what have you? But there's one that is called the hypervigilant, and the hypervigilant is the person that is very self-aware, which is good if you're anticipating danger. So if you're a first responder paramedic, you know that's a great thing. But it goes to the extreme and it's that person that is always paranoid that something bad is going to happen. And I use the example that how do you feel when you're around somebody who is always paranoid that something bad is going to happen?
Lisa Hammett:And it's just constantly out of their mouth and they're like nervous, anxious, irritated, want to smack them. I'm like absolutely, and then exactly and that is exactly what you're talking about, of how we call it a saboteur contagion, where it's somebody's emotions, their saboteurs are infecting somebody else and that's how we influence behavior in very negative ways. But when we show up very positively and we lead with curiosity and empathy and clear-headed focus and we can see the big picture, you know, showing up as our best self, that also transfers to other people.
Jennifer Loehding:Yeah, I know I agree with you and it's much better, I feel like when you have the warm, fuzzy energy going on. It's much happier so much happier no-transcript, and I love what you're doing, I think. I think all of this is so important, so you have a book, right? Am I? Did I get that right? Did I say that at the beginning? Cause my brain it's getting on the hunger mode now, so it's going a little stupid.
Lisa Hammett:And my second book, which is the sequel to it, is coming out next month.
Jennifer Loehding:Okay. The first one's about burnout. What's this one going to be around? Well, they're both.
Lisa Hammett:So the series is from burnout to best life and this one was really developing healthy habits. So I had a section on mindset and what you put in your body, how you move your body, sleep, you know it's more holistic wellness, that kind of thing. And then this one really takes a deep dive into mindset and positive intelligence, because at the time that I wrote the first book it was already being edited when I was getting certified in positive intelligence, but it didn't include any of that. So this one is all about, you know, diving into that positive intelligence and how it impacts you in the workplace if you're a leader, how you show up if you're looking for a job because that is such a big thing right now and just I mean how you navigate life in general and how it impacts your relationships and just what you want in life.
Jennifer Loehding:I love it, I love it and you know what? I think it's just so interesting, the parallels in our lives with our, I guess our entry into this, because my book that I wrote I only wrote one, I don't know if I want to write another one right now that's not on my calling list right now Because it's just not that it was hard, it's just time consuming it is my first one was really a lot about the wellness side of things because that was sort of the entry way I think I got.
Jennifer Loehding:I started to get into like affirmation. But since then I mean I got my neurological fitness training done, certified in that, and really got into more stuff. And I was working with a mentor for a while and studied I think is Robert Kramer the five stages of adult development and I don't know why we thought like I didn't. I don't even know why I thought this never even existed, you know, but I wasn't really, I guess, in the place of understanding, like emotional intelligence and like we're talking about the EQ, all of that stuff. And when I studied that you know, went through that and for anybody listening to that, go look it up because it's actually interesting.
Jennifer Loehding:You adults have stages of development, they do, and once you go through those you will start pinpointing people that you know that fall into each of those categories.
Jennifer Loehding:The funny thing is we tend to navigate, you know, like there, if you go to the top one, obviously these are going to be our leaders on the top, but they go all the way down to, like the self-centered person who is basically just completely they're like a 17 year old child, like they're completely oblivious to the world around them. But if you think about this, talk about from a health perspective, this mentor that I worked with talked about how we might be say we're up at this higher level but then we like we've been saying throughout this, you go into a meeting or you go home to family and all of a sudden you got to jump down now to this level. You're operating mostly at this level, but now you come to this level and he was even getting back to why you think about, like us, being not well, like physically ill, because we're bouncing around between these different levels, and so I often joke about this.
Jennifer Loehding:I love my parents but, man, I tell you, it is chaotic when I. It's not as bad now. I feel like it's better now, but there for a while I go back to visit and, lisa, I tell you, like I didn't even realize this, but I would get so internally worked up and I didn't even know this was going on On the ride home I would always come home with a migraine. Oh wow, On the way back I would get a migraine, and I think it was because I had worked myself up so much going.
Lisa Hammett:Yeah.
Jennifer Loehding:Because it wasn't that we were going to, anybody was going to think bad. We just would always get into these like dumb arguments or it just would be chaotic. And I think in my mind and I will tell you, you know, like I don't get the migraine so much anymore. But the same thing here now when I get into situations where I feel like there's going to be toxicity, or because to me that chaos is a lot of toxicity is attached to it.
Jennifer Loehding:I will start getting internally. I will have things. I have to really work at my you know, my nervous system stuff and really work at my habits and my protective measures to make sure that I keep myself in check, because if I don't then it will manifest into health stuff Like I will just oh, yeah, yeah, weird things will happen.
Lisa Hammett:You know, I'm the same way. I mean, that's your body's reaction to stress and mine is always like stomach related, that's always so fun you know. And my it was funny because my GI doctor said well, you manifest the people who have migraine. You're basically having a migraine in your stomach.
Jennifer Loehding:Yeah.
Lisa Hammett:And I'm like, oh, that's really interesting, but it's everybody's different, you know. Some could be sciatic issues that you oh no, that would be something else. No, your body can manifest whatever it wants when stress is yeah or it'll make it hurt worse, that's for sure.
Jennifer Loehding:If you've got sciatica it can make it hurt. I have sciatica, so I know I get it. But it always flares up. It always does Like right now it's fine, I'm not knowing, but I will tell you it. It will flare up when there's a lot of just emotion and it's emotional chaos, right.
Lisa Hammett:A hundred percent.
Jennifer Loehding:It weighs on you. So this is good, this is good food for thought, and so I'd love to know, for anybody listening to this, like what is it? Because you wrote this in your first book, these habits? So maybe let's backpedal to one of those. Maybe like something that, if somebody's starting to feel we talked a lot about, you know, we talked about making sure you're around the right people, right but maybe something that somebody, if they're starting to recognize the signs that they're traveling down that burnout trail, what is something they can maybe do to help them in this right now. Like something, like a step, something they could do.
Lisa Hammett:Get help. I mean they do I'm not saying that.
Lisa Hammett:You have to admit yourself to, you know, seek help, you know, and that could be support through a mentor. I don't recommend family members, and not to say that family isn't a great dynamic in a lot of cases, but they're not always objective and you need somebody who is objective. So it could be a counselor, a coach, it could be a therapist and you know, for a lot of people they're like well, I don't want to spend money on coaching or whatever and like, okay, you know, start with something that your health insurance will pay for. Yeah, you know, talk to somebody. Or Talk to somebody or a close confidant that you have had in your life, If you have a pastor that you feel comfortable talking to talk to somebody who is objective, because that individual is going to give a different perspective.
Lisa Hammett:Because when you're stuck in the weeds in it, what you're doing is fixating in that misery and you can't like zoom out to really see what the issue is, and an objective person can't. And I mean coaching is great, but I recognize that that's a scary step for a lot of people initially. So, you know, just talk to somebody.
Jennifer Loehding:I think that's great advice. I agree with you and I think, yes, family's not the best when it comes to that. I would not argue with you on any of that. I agree. Yeah, all right. Well, this has been great, lisa. I love what you're doing and I think it's much needed work. Anybody listening to this may want to catch up with you. They might want to find your book, they might want to follow you, they might want to reach out, see what you've got going on. Where do we want to send them?
Lisa Hammett:To my website and my name is up here. It's basically lisahammettcom, really difficult.
Jennifer Loehding:We'll make sure in the show notes we get it in there so they know where to find you and that way, if they're in that phase right now, maybe it'll encourage them to just pause and say, hey, I need to do something differently, whether that is to go seek help or, you know, find a book, I don't know, a resource, whatever you need to maybe get you in that right, make that step to go to a different direction right, 100%, 100%.
Lisa Hammett:Well, thank you, this has been amazing.
Jennifer Loehding:Yeah, it's been fun All right, of course, to our audience. We appreciate you and we hope you find this episode, you know, both informative and inspiring. And if you did, you know what to do Hit the like, the subscribe, comment, share, do all the things so we can keep sharing all of this fabulous content and content. And, as I always say, in order to live the extraordinary, you must start, and every start begins with a decision. You guys, take care, be safe, be kind to one another and we will see you next time.
