Starter Girlz Podcast

How Burnout Forced Me to Lead Myself Differently | Dr. Nicole Garritano, Fractional Leadership Advisor

• Jennifer Loehding • Season 7 • Episode 112

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In this powerful episode of The Starter Girlz Podcast, host Jennifer Loehding sits down with Dr. Nicole Garritano, a fractional leadership advisor, former nurse practitioner, and academic leader, to unpack her deeply personal journey from burnout to alignment and how self-leadership became the turning point.

After years of high achievement, overcommitment, and redefining success through external validation, Nicole faced a wake-up call that changed how she approached leadership, health, and identity. In this conversation, she shares how burnout revealed the gaps in traditional leadership models and why learning to lead yourself first is the foundation for sustainable success, emotional intelligence, and long-term well-being.

This episode blends evidence-based leadership, nervous system regulation, and real-life transformation, offering practical tools for entrepreneurs, women leaders, founders, and professionals who want to succeed without sacrificing themselves in the process.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
✅ What burnout teaches us about leadership and why it’s not a failure
✅ Why self-leadership must come before leading teams or businesses
✅ How identity shifts can support healing, growth, and clarity
✅ The role of the nervous system in emotional intelligence and decision-making
✅ Simple, practical tools to regulate stress, manage energy, and prevent burnout
✅ How to move from hustle-driven achievement to purpose-driven alignment
✅ Why redefining success is essential for modern leadership

Whether you’re navigating burnout, building a business, leading a team, or redefining your next chapter, this conversation will help you reconnect with what truly matters and lead from a place of alignment instead of exhaustion.

Why You Should Watch:
If you’ve ever felt successful on the outside but depleted on the inside, this episode is for you. Dr. Nicole’s story and insights will help you recognize burnout signals early, develop stronger self-awareness, and adopt a leadership style that supports both performance and well-being. 

If conversations about self-leadership, personal transformation, women empowerment, burnout recovery, and aligned success resonate with you, make sure to subscribe to the channel, leave a comment, and share this episode with someone who needs it.

Your support helps us continue sharing meaningful, transformative conversations like this one.

🔗 Guest & Show Links:
Connect with Dr. Nicole Garritano on LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-nicole-garritano-69697a4/
Follow Dr. Nicole on Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/drnicolegarritano/

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🌐 Website: https://startergirlz.com
🙌 Partner: Walt Mills Productions

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Jennifer Loehding:

Welcome to the Starter Girlz Podcast, your ultimate source of inspiration and empowerment. We're here to help women succeed in every area of their lives: career, money, relationships, and health and well-being. While celebrating the remarkable journeys of individuals from all walks of life who've achieved amazing things. Whether you're looking to supercharge your career, build financial independence, nurture meaningful relationships, or enhance your overall well-being, the Starter Girlz Podcast is here to guide you. Join us as we explore the journeys of those who dare to dream big and achieve greatness. I'm your host, Jennifer Loehding, and welcome to this episode. Welcome to another episode of the Starter Girls Podcast. I am your host, Jennifer Loehding, and wherever you are tuning in today, we are so glad to have you. All right, so here we are, another fabulous guest, another day on Starter Girlz Podcast. Super excited about today. I want to open up with this. Sometimes the wake-up call comes when everything looks fine on the outside, but inside something feels off. My guest today is someone who knows what it's like to trade burnout for balance and achievement for alignment. Her story is about redefining success, trusting your intuition, and leading from a place of purpose. And so we're gonna get to chat with her in just a few minutes. But before we do that, I do need to do a quick shout out to our sponsor. This episode is brought to you by Walt Mills Productions. Need to add excitement to your YouTube videos or some expert hands for editing? Look no further. Walt Mills is the solution you've been searching for. Walt is not only your go-to guy for spicing up content, he's the force behind a thriving film production company with numerous titles in the pipeline. Always on the lookout for raw talent, Walt is eager to collaborate on film and internet productions. With a background deeply rooted in entertainment and promotion, Walt Mills leverages years of skills to give you the spotlight you deserve. Want to learn more about Walt and his work? Head on over to Walt Mills Productions.net and let your content shine. All right. And with that, I do want to say head on over to startergirlz.com. You hear me say this every single week. And why do I say that? For three reasons. One, because if you have missed an episode, it's a great place to catch up. Even the bad ones, they're all there. It's also a great place for you to keep up in the know. You can sign up for our community newsletter and keep up with what we've got going on and follow all of our future podcast episodes. And then, of course, if you are an entrepreneur or creator, maybe you're already in the thick of your business and you want to understand or find out what your normal number one success block is that may be hindering your success. Well, I've got your back. I have a two-minute quiz over there that I've designed that will help you identify one of six six subconscious blocks that may be impacting your success right now. So head on over to startergirlz.com. And as I always say, do your thing. Okay. And if I can keep talking in good words here, we're gonna be good today because for whatever reason, I keep stumbling over my words. All right. So my guest today, Dr. Nicole Garritano, a fractional leadership advisor, leadership coach, and consultant with over 15 years of experience in healthcare, academia, and executive leadership. With a doctor of nursing practice and background as a nurse practitioner and university program director, Nicole blends evidence-based expertise with spiritual insight to help women align their energy, trust their intuition, and redefine success. Her own journey, which I'm sure she'll share with us, began with a health crisis that inspired her to choose alignment over achievement. And now she shares that through her work, her coaching, human design energy medicine, and breath work. And so, Dr. Nicole Hirizano, welcome to the show. We're so excited to have you here today.

Dr. Nicole Garritano:

Well, thank you for having me. Every time I hear an intro of myself, that's like, is that really me? I don't know if other people feel that way, but sometimes when you have your own life reflected back to you, kind of gets you even a little emotional when you just think about all the hurdles that you've overcome.

Jennifer Loehding:

So right.

Dr. Nicole Garritano:

Am I right to everybody listening that's maybe in that process of going going through some hurdles right now? There is light on the other side and lots of possibility.

Jennifer Loehding:

Absolutely. And I want to add to those those bios, you know, all my years, um, people have heard me say this on these episodes so many times. Um, 22 years in Mary Kay in leadership, and we had to get really good at accolades. And um, it's interesting because I think the reason we did that was just because it was sort of like like you just said, you would hear those and you're like, wow, I did that. It kind of feels good, right? To know. But when you have that story that goes with that, there's power behind it too. And it makes you realize like all the work you had to do to get to where you are, right?

Dr. Nicole Garritano:

Yes, exactly.

Jennifer Loehding:

Um I'm excited to chat with you because I think um you and I are gonna have a powerful um story, and I myself have had to overcome multiple um hurt health things that I've had to work on, hence why we do this show. Because it's been a journey for sure. And so um, I always say all my people that come on here, I love having conversation with them. And so I I just think we're gonna have a great, a great dialogue here today. Me too. Can't wait. Okay, so let's talk about you because you uh like me have a lot of things back there behind you. Things imagine that a lot of this has been stuff you've learned in the process of peeling yourself and things you wanted to know. And so I want you to tell us a little bit. I I want to start with where you are now. Maybe tell us a little bit about how you're helping your clients and what kind of makes you unique and what you're doing.

Dr. Nicole Garritano:

Yeah, so the way I help clients now, I mainly help organizations and then particularly founders or the solopreneur. I'm truly still a solopreneur, and so I have a really big heart for everybody out there that is going the entrepreneurial route on their own, um, but also just feels like they are on such a mission and have a passion for what they're doing. Um, so the main ways I help is I help um solopreneurs align their energy with their business. Because so many times we're taught business needs to look a certain way. And so I actually help them align the processes behind the scenes as well as the forward-facing, how they're presenting themselves to the world in a way that's really true and authentic to them. And inside organizations, I work with leaders and also with teams around team dynamics, employee health and wellness, um, and leadership development.

Jennifer Loehding:

I love it. It's a lot of the stuff. I feel like you and I have so many parallels. We do. I feel like it's like I, you know, it's so funny. Like I, you know, you're gonna laugh at this. And so, and because it's not only like the work I do here, but like I have a pet sitting business too that I do because I'm like all around. I'm like, hey, we're taking care of humans and taking care of the pets, right? And the world's a happy place when you cover the two. But it's so funny because I was telling my husband yesterday, because I have so many websites, I feel like, because I've got my health website, my coaching, my pet, my podcast. I finally was like, that's it. We're just gonna create one digital card and we're just gonna put everything together because it all goes together. And that way when people say to me, Nicole, they're like, what is it you do? I'm like, I'm just gonna give you my digital card. It's so much easier.

Dr. Nicole Garritano:

I would take too long to go through all of those things. But hey, I'm a big pet lover. We have five pets, so I'm right there with you. You got to take care of the animals.

Jennifer Loehding:

You do. And when you're a healthy person and your pets are healthy, the world is just a great place.

Dr. Nicole Garritano:

It's such a better, better place.

Jennifer Loehding:

I say we're taking care of the furry friends and the and the and the their pet, you know, their pet parents too. So exactly. But I love it because you're doing so, you're bringing a lot of these things that I love to talk about. Like, you know, like I'm I'm trained and I'm a nervous system trainer, so I love talking about that. I think it's huge. And when you, you know, you bring all this in and you talk about like the health and wellness, it really makes and pair that with the leadership, it makes effective teams, effective people, right? Because it's not just about knowing leadership to be an effective leader, you gotta be well. And if you're not well, you ain't affecting you. If you're not affecting yourself, you ain't affecting anybody else either.

Dr. Nicole Garritano:

Exactly, exactly. I always start with we're all leaders. You know, some people will say they're not a leader, but I venture to say, no, we're all leaders. And it really starts with self-leadership. But so many people will sometimes not identify with their leadership qualities because of conditioning or experiences they had when they were younger with people in authority or what they were told, right, by other people about their leadership um capability. And so so many times the root of my work really starts with what I like to call the hero's journey of the leader. Let's go back, right? When did this story of leadership begin for you? Because it's in those roots of that story, right? We get to f follow those roots to see how you're really flourishing and growing now. And if you're not growing, where did those roots get stunted along the way? And how can we fertilize, right, those roots and help you really step into the leader that you're meant to be, but by leading yourself first. So so many times, like you said, that is we have to heal ourselves first. We have to lead ourselves by healing ourselves so that ripple effect can then make its way out into the circles that we're a part of.

Jennifer Loehding:

Yeah. And you know what's so interesting? I had um, right before that's why it took me a minute to get to you. I had a guy on here before. He was a former petroleum, he was engineering, chemist, smart guy. And at 49, he retired. And then he was like, okay, what do I do? I'm I need to like reinvent myself because like what do I do? Like I've achieved this pinnacle of success. And and like, you know, anyways, it's interesting because I was listening to him go through his framework and it and it really kind of brings back when we talk about this whole like healing ourselves, transformation, whatever that looks like for everybody. We all those of us that do sort of kind of go all through the same stages, right? These same stages, they look different for everybody, but and and they say, and the people that come on and talk about them, they will say them to me in very different ways. But when I look at the overarching, they're always really the same. So it's like I know the story because I've been through it, and I everybody around me that is talked about this has been through it, but they look different, and it's so interesting to me to hear them from everybody because they'll say little nuanced things. I'm like, that's what that was. That's that stage that we went through, but that's how they saw that stage, right? And this is how I saw it, you saw it, whatever. And so I guess what I'm saying is that the principles are really the same when you go through these transformations, right? Yeah. You just look a little bit different to each of us that are going through the process.

Dr. Nicole Garritano:

Right. And what's unique is our experience of that transformation, our very human experience, right? Because, like you said, it is a process and there are steps involved. And you're you're able to pick out when you hear people's stories, like, oh, you were on like that rung of the ladder. Right. You were on that step in the staircase. However, when we're having that human experience, we're not always viewing it as the next rung, right? Or the next step because we're in the thick of it, right? You just can't help but be in it. And so I think it's really beautiful that even sometimes we're in the messiness of transformation and healing. We're all having this very unique lived experience that then gets to be the gift that we share with others in the way that it's meant to come through us. Because then again, that's another element of that leadership, right? Being able to share in your own words about your lived experience. And that creates trust and authenticity and all these things we really strive for as leaders in these spaces and places that we show up.

Jennifer Loehding:

Yeah. Well, I want to back up to your journey because obviously you've got the medical background, which I think is a great awesome. I love it because I think that's, like I said, such a huge part of this whole leadership process. And um, it's the reason like why I got certified in nervous system training. And I ended up actually I'm certified in keto and carnivore coaching and and also supplement training. Not because I don't know if I had intentions really to do any of that with, you know, but I did it for me because it was it was protocols that I needed for my healing journey. And in the process of that, I realized that I wanted to know what I could know about that because if somebody is in that place, I might be able to say, here's what I did and here's what I can show you, kind of thing. So I want to know about your journey because clearly you've got the medical background and you brought that forward and you had something in here that led you, pulled you through this transformation. So maybe walk us through some of that.

Dr. Nicole Garritano:

Yes. Well, I'll just start by saying, because this may help someone that's listening. Um, never be afraid to reinvent yourself. That is one thing when I reflect back on now, even though I had friends and family, that every time I did a pivot, every time I went in a new direction, they were like, Can't what's going on? Why can't you figure this out? Like, why do you need to do something new? And, you know, we people don't mean to. They can create some shame, right? Or they can make you second. I could be friends.

Jennifer Loehding:

I've been through this a lot. Yes.

Dr. Nicole Garritano:

And so now when I step back at this age and look at it, I'm like, no, I was meant to go through every one of those reinventions. And it takes a level of courage, right? You have to be really courageous and brave and take risks. And not everybody's willing to do that. But if you're someone that's resonating with some of those words right now, just know, stay the course. There's nothing wrong with reinvention. And the people saying that to us, they do love us. They do, they want to be helpful. They just probably aren't the risk takers, right? So they get to live vicariously through us. Um, but yes, to circle back. So, you know, really when I when I went to college initially, and I both my parents were teachers, so you know, education was was very front and center um in our household growing up. So I know that has only contributed to me doing all the things um that I've done. But I really studied uh business and marketing and PR. And I did that for several years, but it just never like it never did it for me. And I don't know if it was because having teachers that were parents or parents that were teachers, I always heard about the difference they were making. And there was something about being in the business world that I was like, I just don't feel like I'm making a difference. It wasn't as human focused. And so then I went through this period, I went through a diagnosis of melanoma skin cancer in my mid-20s. And it was during that where I had a I had a nurse um at the head of my bed for my surgery because they my my particular doctor didn't put you under if you were young. So um she just she transformed everything for me. She talked me through the whole thing. And I just kind of had this feeling right then, like, I'm gonna figure out how to become a nurse. And I did. That's a longer, that's a whole nother story. But I did figure out a way to become a nurse. So I pivoted into nursing. And I just remember in the first so many years in nursing, just going to work every day and feeling like I would forget, I would forget I was getting paid to be there. Like I just loved it so much. I enjoyed everything that I was doing. And that continued, that human connection, being of service. And what really made me unique in being a nurse as I was going into my 30s is that I did have that business background, which not every brand new nurse had. And so I understood it was also a business. And so it very quickly allowed me to be in some different leadership positions and sit on committees and do those things. And so fast forward through nursing, I became a nurse practitioner, did all those traditional steps, you know, that a nice, good type A personality does to make their way through the profession. And then I was working on my doctoral degree, and um, they invited me over into a position at the college. And so I wasn't intending to do that. I mean, I thought I would teach at some point, but I wasn't intending to do it then, but I did it. Leap of faith again. Um, and then from there, I stepped into more leadership um positions and got into administration within the university. But still, I always said, I traded, you know, you have your patients, then you trade your patients for your students. Because every student that's going through a program, they have a lot of mental health, you know, things going on. They're they're juggling a lot. They have their own relationships, their own work, plus they're trying to take on these huge endeavors. And so you kind of just trade, you trade one group for another group. And then as I stepped into coaching, I was like, oh, my clients now are kind of like patients to students to clients. Um, but I really had that breaking burnout point when I was in academia. And it was interesting because academia felt like so much freedom for me when I went into it, because there was not the set schedule. There was some flexibility and you know, getting to go to conferences and more travel and just things that feel really life-giving. But at the same time, I had not learned my own energy around saying yes and no to things. And being that overachiever, I said yes to everything. And so, you know, when I experienced my burnout, my daughter was one year old. We had adopted her the year before. I never took a maternity leave from the university. I was running a couple programs at the time because we had some people leave. We were launching some new programs. Um, and all of a sudden, a year later, I said yes to that. I said yes to things because I still had a clinical practice. And all of a sudden I woke up one Friday morning with pain down the right side of my neck, shooting down through my arm with no known injury. And it ended up being a herniated disc in my neck. But because this happened on a Friday and there was no known injury, no one would do an MRI on me until Monday. So it was like God, the universe just stepped in and said, All right, you get to lay in bed for the next two to three days, you know, in pain. You're not gonna be able to do much for yourself. You're gonna have to actually ask other people for help. And it was, I think that was more painful than the pain I was in, like laying in my bed, but hearing my husband and my mom and my sister came over and they're all trying to take care of our daughter. And I'm like hearing the vacuum and I'm I'm hearing things like they're not doing it right. They're not doing it the way I would do it. And so literally like a come to Jesus meeting around, okay, control. Can you receive? Um, and then halfway through it, laying in bed that weekend, because I'm the good type A, as you are too. I said, you know what? There's got to be other women out there that are just like me, that are burning in at both ends. They have no one to help them. And so I was like, I'm gonna figure out how to become a coach, like how to help other women in this situation. And um that weekend, too. The only thing I could do was hold my phone and try to use my right hand, you know, to look at my phone. And I read an email. This email popped up about entrepreneurship training. And you could fill out this application. So I filled it out with my left hand that weekend and I sent it off. Well, fast forward, like three or four months, I'm finally done with physical therapy. I'm finally saying no to a few things. I'm starting to get better about it. And I get this phone call one day out of the blue, and they're like, Hey, you signed up for that entrepreneurship training. We didn't pick your application at first, but now somebody has dropped out. Would you like to step in? It starts next week. And that's I felt like that was my sign because it brought me back again full circle to, yes, that's right. I said when I felt better, this is what I was going to do. And so then things just started to align. And that was how I kind of stepped into coaching, dipped my toes um in the water.

Jennifer Loehding:

So, yeah. And to go back to what you said in the very beginning about you needed all those stages. You definitely needed all those stages. Because I, you know, I say this about everybody. Really, I feel like most even when they're even not even the same, like in the same playing field, there is something that came from each of those experiences that rolled into the next, right? And I think a lot of people don't, I don't say everybody, because again, that's assuming, but I think a lot of people miss that. They really they'll go, Oh, I did this, and that had nothing to do with what I'm doing. Well, it kind of did. You learned something while you were there. I mean, there was, you know, like I talk about there was this little short period of time where I I partnered up with this, I worked with this firm for like a very short time. It was a leadership firm. They were working with these larger businesses. I think they were doing like half million and up. And I was gonna come in and do leadership basically. I was gonna work with their, they they were basically working with the teams, and I was going to work come in and do some leadership training with some of the members on the teams. Anyways, never ended up happening because the goalposts kept changing. But long story short, I we parted ways. I didn't, I stayed there with them for maybe four or five months, and then we realized it wasn't gonna work out, and we parted ways. And I was kind of bitter when I came out because I had felt like I think the thing I was bitter about at the time, Nicole, was that they had just, I felt like my time had been wasted, right? Like I felt like I'd spent my time committed and they kept changing the goalposts. It was always I needed to learn something else. I was qualified. I had 20-something years of leadership. I don't know everything. I'm not gonna pretend that I know everything, but I could probably have led a few people to do something, you know? Yes. I built teams, okay? But they just kept changing the goalpost. And when I came out, I was angry, and my husband said something to me I hadn't forgotten about, which is interesting because he's an engineer. He's not even in any of this kind of work. He said, think about all the books you read while you were working in that firm. Because I did. I read Stephen Covey's Seven Half, what is it, the Seven Hamlets of Highly Effective People. I read Spin Selling, I read The Five Dysfunctions of a Team. I read all of these great books that interestingly enough, now I recommend that my clients read. And I would have probably never taken the time to sit down to do that had I not had those stupid goalposts keep changing and he kept telling me I needed to read another book. You know what I mean? And so my point to this is here I was in a moment being bitter about the fact that I'd gone through this and wasted my time, never made a dime, you know, doing this, but I actually gained some really good knowledge and and and more than just the books. It taught me, you know, what I want to work with, what I don't, what type of client I want. It helped me in so many ways. And shortly after that, I partnered up with a mentor that I worked with for two years that was, I mean, talk about perfect timing came in right after that and helped me with a lot of different things. And so, to your point, I think that all these experiences that we have are really instrumental in the foundation. We just have to figure out what they are, even if sometimes your chemical engineer husband has to point it out to you.

Dr. Nicole Garritano:

Well, it's because we're so close to it, right? When it's happening. And deep down as humans, we just want to feel seen and valued with what we bring to the table. So, especially with what you're describing, you're like, I'm here. Hello, let me do this work. Oh, now you keep shifting things around on me. So now I'm over here reading this book, right? You're gaining a lot of knowledge. But again, I come back to it's because we want to control. We have an idea of how things are supposed to unfold. Oh, yeah. And so we just keep learning that lesson. You know, even in my story, there's so many instances of, okay, you have melanoma skin cancer. You can't control that. You can't control the outcome. You have to lean into surrender, right? Um, making those pivots in my career. There was no guarantee each one would work out or be successful, but you have to lean in and surrender, right? Becoming a mom through adoption. There's a lot of surrender there. You have very little, you know, control and then laying in the bed with the herniated disc. So clearly, I'm trying, I'm trying to learn this lesson throughout my whole life, right? Just over and over and over. And I can say in recent years, when obstacles or what we would think of as obstacles or hurdles come up, I do notice a shift in myself, in my perspective. Like, oh, well, what's in this for me? What's in this for us as a family? Um, even when it's hard, right? Even if there's days I'm just journaling it like you, feeling very bitter, feeling very upset, maybe on the verge of tears. But it's like, okay, maybe there's something that wants to flow through me in my journal time right now.

Jennifer Loehding:

Yeah.

Dr. Nicole Garritano:

You know, where I'll be able to see this from a different perspective. So I feel like once it's in our awareness, you know, then we can't miss the opportunities.

Jennifer Loehding:

Yeah.

Dr. Nicole Garritano:

On the other side of the obstacles. Sorry to mean to catch you up.

Jennifer Loehding:

I was I heard you say something that's really important. It's like that being aware, but because that that is, I think, and I will say this because I don't know about you, but I've had I've just had a lot of like hard things. And I and I think it's because I needed, I've needed to learn the lesson. Like I needed to pick up on the lesson. Um when I was going through my I got diagnosed with trigeminal neuralgia in 2012. And that that period when I was going through that for four years, I will say this. I eventually I ended up doing keto for two years. I was able to get off all my medications. I put it into remission. I have not had been for it since. Um good for you. But for four years, for four years, I'm saying this because what we're talking about right now, this is relevant. For four years, I was a victim in that. Meaning I kept trying to um shift, I kept trying to find reasons for why people had caused this, like why, why this had happened. And when I came to a place, and I actually had a practitioner, he was a holistic practitioner asked me, he said, What were you doing at the time that this happened? And I've talked about this, I talked about it in my book because I got really mad about it because I was like really like, okay, I was running a business and I was a homeroom mom to three kids, 16, 12, and 8. Okay, I'm carpool mom. That's what I'm doing. I'm type A doing a hundred different things, wearing a million hats, right? And you want to ask me what I did to contribute to this? I went to the dentist. I went to the dentist, you know, and then five months later I've got triceminal neuralgia. You know, the dentist did it. My point in this is I I did that for that languaging for four years. And then when he asked me that, I got mad. And then I went home and I was like, I started thinking about it. And I was like, what am I doing? Like, what was I doing? Right. I'm getting skills right now telling you this because that was like the come into Jesus moment. That was one of them. That was a come into Jesus moment because I realized in that moment that there's a possibility that I am actually contributing to the things that are going on in my world. I'm not no longer the victim of all the circumstances. I can't control everything, but I don't have to sit back and be a victim to everything. I can change the way I'm looking at things, change the way I'm showing up, change the way that I behave, respond, all those things. So that one moment, you know, it's funny because I wrote my book in 2019. So here we are, you know, years later. But it was that one moment that really was the tipping point for everything that I'm doing today because it started this whole trajectory of me now talking about what you're talking about. Like what am I learning from things that are happening? What is the takeaway in this? How did I contribute to this? What could I have done differently? What could I do differently going forward? Really, this whole overlooking of everything and no longer being just the victim to everything. And so um that's how I can go in now when something doesn't necessarily turn out favorably and say, okay, this was a really sucky thing that happened right here. What's the lesson in this? What do I need to gain from this particular experience?

Dr. Nicole Garritano:

Yes. And that's why story is so powerful. Because just to your point, we are telling ourselves stories every single day about everything, right? We're telling ourselves a story when the road's closed and we're trying to drive somewhere. We're telling ourselves a story. The road doesn't want me to get where I'm going today. I can't go where I want to go, right? Uh, we're telling ourselves a story if we have, you know, when we have these businesses. If things are going well, we're telling ourselves one story. If they're not going so well, we're telling ourselves another story. And that's why I come back to anyone I work with. It's like, well, let's get into your story. And so for anyone listening, it's a great time to ask yourself, okay, so where did some of this come from? What, where, where, where was the first chapter, right? You know, of the story that I'm still telling myself. Because at any given point in time, you can create that plot twist for yourself. You can write the new chapter, right? You can choose to go a different route that day because, oh, yesterday the road was closed. So today I'm going to remember. I'm going to be the hero today because I'm going to remember to go the other way that quickly, right? Our energy, our day can shift. And you're right. So it's around, it's around the awareness. And then once we're in that awareness, what are we choosing to do with that awareness? Are we using it for good? Are we not using it for good? We're our own worst critics, right? We're walking around with this internal critic. All of us have it. And so, how do you get into the right relationship, you know, with that critic? How do you start to write the stories together, co-create together? Because really the critic just wants to get you back on the right path. Yeah. You know what I mean? Just wants to help you get through the rough draft, so to speak. And so we want the critic. It's a guide.

Jennifer Loehding:

Yeah.

Dr. Nicole Garritano:

We don't want to banish the critic completely, but when the critic sneaks in, you know, it's it's just like a movie, right? Or a book. There are people that review the movies and the books. They're the critics. Right. Right. Yeah. But you use that, right? You use it and channel that to get better each day, to choose again, to find the opportunity and the obstacle, like I said before. And so story becomes so powerful. I also like to um teach people a little bit about the difference between monologue and dialogue. Yeah. All right. Because monologue is when we just talk at someone. So we get this. We've all been in that where we're trying to have a conversation. The other person's just, they're in monologue. They want to give us their monologue and they don't really care about what we have to say. But we also know what it's like to be in dialogue with someone where, like what we're doing, where it's like, I'm I'm listening to you and I'm getting ideas and you're listening to me, and you're like, oh, that's that's bringing this up for me. That's dialogue. That's what we really want to be in. But many times we're in monologue with ourselves internally. The critic is just dot dot real and at home. Yep. Right. And we're not getting back into dialogue with ourselves. So it's like, how do you start the conversation? Or how can you be in conversation with your inner critic each day to forge a new path, to come up with new ideas, to be inspired.

Jennifer Loehding:

I love that. So we should just really be talking to ourselves and asking ourselves questions. That's what I'm thinking. Yes. You know what? Because I'm doing that all the time. I'm like, okay, well, this was really bad today, Jennifer. What are you going to do different tomorrow? What are we going to do?

Dr. Nicole Garritano:

Yes. Well, you know, I tell a lot of my clients, hit record on your phone and talk it out with yourself. Just lay it all out, then go back and listen. Listen to yourself because there's so much information in the tone of our voice. We know right away when we listen to ourselves back, like, oh, that's a great idea. Oh, no, I'm glad I didn't say that out loud to anyone else, right? Or we get the giggles at ourselves, like, you didn't even put the words together the right way. But I know what you mean, right? Because it's my idea. Um, the other thing, like from a neuroscience standpoint, is that our subconscious mind trusts our own voice the most because it's the voice that's always new. So there's a lot of power within our own self-leadership to record ourselves and to get into this dialogue where we vent it all out, talk it all out, listen to ourselves back, and then from there start to discern what are the next best steps. Where do I want to go next?

Jennifer Loehding:

I love it. No, it's good stuff. And I was laughing, kind of chuckling a little bit when you're talking about the monologue and the dialogue, because my husband will probably tell you, I'm always monologuing him with him. But I tell him all the time. I'm like, well, if you were interested in what I had to say, you'd be dialoguing with me. You wouldn't be letting me do all the monologuing. I had to just tell him.

Dr. Nicole Garritano:

Yeah. Tell him. Do you remember when we first met all the dialogue you engaged in with me? He's a quiet. Now you only enjoy my monologues.

Jennifer Loehding:

You enjoy my monologues. That's what happens so much. I tell him all the time, I'm like, you'd be bored if I wasn't monologuing you. You wouldn't have anything to talk about at all. Because then it just be too quiet. Nobody be talking at all. But I tell my I agree with you on this whole dialogue because it is so true. The things we say to ourselves are so powerful. And, you know, I the that what it so much of even like even like the guy that I was talking to before, we were talking about just attitude and like, you know, we go into something, and if we think something's gonna work, something isn't gonna work. And I will tell you, you know, just that conversation when I mentioned the going from the four years of being the victim to stepping out. Okay, so four years of being, I was on six different medications, including opiates, in pain every single day, nothing was changing, to 11 months. I'm not promoting, I'm not saying one way or the other, but 11 months of changing the trajectory. I went keto and I got up on my medicines in 11 months, medications in 11 months. So my point to that, yes, there were, I'm sure there was some things in there that made a difference. I got a lot of sugar out of my body and cut inflammation down, but my attitude was also very different too, because my attitude went from being, I'm a victim, I can't control anything, there's nothing I can change, to I'm going to attempt to try to change things. I'm going to at least give it my all and put the energy and the effort into this. And I'm going to get better. I'm going to work to get better. So it really was that shift. And I think that probably started with the dialogue because I got, to put it bluntly, pissed off at being sick and ill every day and hurting. To we've got to figure out a way to get out of this and get into a place where I can thrive. So, health or not, I think that mentality is really the same. If we want to be effective leaders, whatever, we have to decide, right? That we want to be curious and have those dialogues with ourselves and work to change those processes because otherwise you're just gonna, you know, be, I would have gotten up. I can't imagine here, you know, 13 years later, still going, I have trigeminal neuralgia, you know, like and that's my life. I mean, I've been diagnosed with it, but I don't even tell people, I don't even I talk about that as something I've gone through, but I don't talk about that as something that I even have. And I'm not gonna lie, there are times sometimes it'll it'll flare up just nothing ever bad where I need medication or to go to the hospital or anything like that. But I will feel the nerve every now and then, a little bit of ting in here when the weather gets cold, air, or you know, and so I know it's still kind of there, but I don't even tell people it's not like, hey, Nicole, I have trade, you know, yeah, you won't hear, you know. So I I do. I think it's I think it's it's the dialogue and what we tell ourselves and how we choose to show up with that.

Dr. Nicole Garritano:

Yes. Well, and what I hear and what you're saying too, which is I think really important with anything health related, is there was an identity shift for you. And so it's really easy, especially in our society, to allow whatever diagnosis you have to become part of your identity, yeah, or become the main character in your story. And so for a while, that was the main character of your story until you were like, I'm fed up with this, I want this, I want this to go away. You got really empowered, right? You got mad, you got empowered, and you started to take action. And in doing that, your identity shifted. You were no longer the person that has this, you were the person that's going to conquer it. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So you you became a different character in your story. But I feel like particularly with health issues, that becomes more prevalent. You know, my mom had breast cancer last year, and the one thing we've come back to is she did really well with all of her treatment. You know, she's finished everything up now. But every time she and I have talked about it, one thing that always comes up is she never identified with having like having breast cancer. It was more of a like, oh, this is going on. These are the steps I'm going to take to make it go away, to heal myself. Yeah. And so, like, even as she finished up and they that you get to go to survivorship clinic where they have like massage and acupuncture and like all these nice services that you get to go do. She's like, I just hate that it's called survivorship clinic. Can't they? Yeah, can't they call it something else? Because that is how strongly like she has not allowed herself to identify, you know, with that particular diagnosis. And so um, you know, I just feel like for her, maybe not for everybody, everybody's here to learn different things from their experiences. But I will say, when you make that conscious shift to not allow the diagnosis to become who you are and become everything about you, there's a lot of power, right? And and reclaiming who you were or who you want to be on the other side of the diagnosis.

Jennifer Loehding:

I like your mom. I don't even know her and I like her. No, I agree. I think it's important. I think it really it uh I like I said, I I can't I have not gone through what your mom's gone through, but I will say I could not imagine waking up and being on six different medications for the rest of my life and being like that. Like I just couldn't imagine that the quality of life and the um you know, and so um I I I think yeah, you you have to get fed up or decide that you're not going to, you know, and I and I work with it. It's interesting. I have a functional, she has a registered nurse here that is uh she does functional medicine. I go see her, I get she checks my blood every three months. We look at everything, she looks at blood markers, she's great because she does a full panel, can look at everything. So really she knows what to look for. If there's anything out of balance, we know she knows we need to you know investigate. But it's great because I meet so many people that come in there and they come from all over the country to see this lady. And it's so interesting to hear their stories, like what they're going through, but they all sort of have this same kind of like I'm going, I'm fighting, like I'm not identifying, I have this, but I'm like working, and it just I get so like I was in there one day with a girl that had like stage four cancer, a young girl, like stage four that was in there, and she was just so like good spirited, and just you know what I mean, that fighter mentality. It was just so impressive to me. So I think yes, that whole that identity shift is important to all of this, and I think that comes back to the mindset, really, like, you know, of how you what do you want to do here? Because you can either yes, I'm not saying there are some things you're not gonna be out of control, but you don't have to sit back and be like, okay, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna go this route and be negative about it, and you know, and we all have to learn, I guess, learn it, whatever the the takeaway is for us, because I don't ever like to say I know how somebody feels or what somebody's going through in any of these journeys that we're going through, whether it be health or the leadership or the pain points of a business, you know. I I feel like all these little parallels, they all show up in all these segues of our business and teach or in our lives and teach us things. So it's it's very smart human experience.

Dr. Nicole Garritano:

And I feel like in any surrender process, because that's what we've talked about several times as we've been chatting, what we still can control in the surrender process is What we choose to think about, how we choose to react to things. There's still choice. There's still things we can control. We're not complete victims of our circumstances all the time. You know. So what does it look like to be the hero each day? You know, how do you choose yourself instead of the title you've given yourself? How do you actually choose yourself, the real inner you? And I feel like for anyone listening, it could be fun for you to make a list of all the identities that that come up for you. You know, it could be like mom, partner, like all of them. Maybe they're old ones that people have put on you, but start to go through that list and ask yourself, which ones do I still really resonate with? And which ones would I be okay to let go of?

Jennifer Loehding:

Absolutely.

Dr. Nicole Garritano:

That's good. Anchor in, anchor into a new identity.

Jennifer Loehding:

Yeah, because if people get, we get in, everybody gets in, we get into autopilot, right? We just assume and it just stays until we, I think it's like like balancing your checkbook, right? Like if you don't know what's in there, you don't know what's in there. But the minute you sit down and you look, you go, oh, maybe I need to do this a little different, do this a little different. It's the same thing what you're saying here. You know, it's really about just taking stock of how you're identifying yourself. And are you still carrying that? Or are you saying, I don't need that any longer, right? Yes.

Dr. Nicole Garritano:

Right. And even some of the ones I think I always go back to mom. Like you brought up being a mom to your kids at the, you know, how the ages they were at the time and um how you were going a million different directions for them, right? You're doing carpools, you're doing your momming. Call it momming. That's the good umbrella term, right? Um and my daughter's nine, and so I feel like I'm running around on the water. You're doing the momming. Yes. Yes, I'm doing the momming. And I would never, just like you would, we would never want to give up momming. But even in that identity, how can I choose differently? If I feel too frantic and I feel too rushed, what is it I can do for me? Is it I just get up 20 minutes earlier so I have a little more time on the front end of my morning? Is it that after everyone's gone to bed, I carve out 15 minutes for myself or I put my phone down and I just be with myself, or I read my book, or I do what we still have choice in that. So we can choose to be the calmer, maybe not as chaotic uh mom, because there's still going to be chaotic days, but we still have choice in that. So we can reshape some of these identities, you know, and into something that's more balanced, more, more flourishing for us, but also our kids pick up on that. So it's a great way to role model for them ways to self-regulate.

Jennifer Loehding:

Yeah. I love that you said be calmer because I'm like, we're moms, right? Yeah. This is my goal every day. It's like my goal all the time. Now my kids are grown, so they're all out. And I and I'm you're gonna love this because we're sort of like we were joking yesterday because we're kind of empty nesters, but not. Yeah, because my youngest, who's 21, is a chef. And so he travels. And so right now he is in Hawaii. He's supposed to be coming back on Wednesday. And we were joking yesterday because we're like, we keep getting we get a taste of like empty nester, and then we're not empty nesters anymore. And so, like, I asked my husband the day, I'm like, are you excited he's coming back? And my husband's like, it's gonna like, yeah, but it's gonna be chaotic again. Because we just know, right? And so I'm like, I'm in my prep right now. Like today's Monday. I'm in my prep zone where I'm like, okay, my identity is not freak out, mom.

Dr. Nicole Garritano:

We are under control. It is all good. You're like in identity shape shifting modes around empty nesting. We aren't we aren't.

Jennifer Loehding:

We are, we aren't. So we're always like trying out like which identity are we losing today? And funny, I I run a um a networking group, and last week we were talking about how we were talking about scripting actually, but we were talking about how we want to come across to our people that we work with. And I was like, come up with words you like, like grounded, calm, all of these words, right? Like are words that I like to use for myself. Yeah, we're grounded today, we're calm today, we're uh we're nice today, we're smiley today. All the words, but we know we know it's not always perfect, you know? It's it's it's it's it's definitely a constant.

Dr. Nicole Garritano:

They all move on like a continuum, yeah, right? So like you have your perfect balance of calm, and then maybe you moved a little heightened, excited calm, right? And then like a little more negative, but internally you may still feel pretty calm as you're evaluating what's exciting, you know, and what's triggering you. But it's okay. We're all gonna move through it. But it comes back to the awareness, right? We're just like, okay, now I'm gonna come back to center.

Jennifer Loehding:

I've taken a little breath. I wanted to ask you really quick on the burnout because this was a thing for you, and I obviously it's a big thing you talk about, and it is a lot. It's I talk about it too. I talk a lot about, you know, how then you know the nervous system, the signs of that, and also too, just how that affects like emotional intelligence, right? Right, how we show up in the workforce and around the kids. And that's always such a fun topic with people because they don't connect the dots, you know. Nervous, they think nervous system like physical running, exercise, corners, all those kinds of things, but they never connect the dots that the nervous system is actually related to what everything we've been talking about here, like how we show up and respond and all of that. So I would love just some you know input on that from you as far as like what you see, or maybe some things people can look for, um, just from your take. Yes.

Dr. Nicole Garritano:

So the first thing that's really coming up for me is I feel like this is one of the most valuable things I learned when I did my trauma-informed certification and training. And it comes back to this idea of when we're in relationship with other people, because I find, like for myself personally, right? For clients typically, relationship dynamics tend to be one of our bigger triggers that definitely gets us dysregulated. If we could also have so much alone time each day, we'd be very regulated. Right. But we're humans and we're meant to interact. And so a lot of our trigger points come from outside of us, from other people, and we're just all kind of triggering each other. But the main thing I learned there that I like to bring forward to people is in a relationship, a third of the time you are going to be in rapport, you know, like meaning we get along, we see things eye to eye. You're going to spend um a third of the time um fighting, right? Not getting along. And then you're gonna spend a third of the time, well, I should say fighting, or we can call it rupture.

Jennifer Loehding:

Rupture, I like that.

Dr. Nicole Garritano:

Can call it rupture. So you might it might be fighting. Sometimes rupture is passive aggressive, sometimes rupture is avoidance, you know. But a lot of us go to, especially like in our home dynamics, right? We might bicker a little bit. We think of it more as like a little bit of fighting, but passive aggressive can come in there. But then a third of the time you should be in repair. And that's where society and families really haven't taught us how to repair. So a lot of times we're in rapport, we're getting along. You don't want to be in rapport longer than a third of the time because it means that one of you is never saying what you really think. Yeah. Yeah. You can't agree on everything. Right. You know. Um, and then we're really good at rupturing, right? Society is really good at showing us how to rupture. We see it play out on television, in the news, right? There's just rupture, rupture, rupture. We very rarely see repair. So, especially as a parent, and I advocate this with my clients, especially when I'm in organizations, maybe they've had some ruptures, but they've never really sat down with the team to try to repair that rupture. But particularly with my daughter, I feel like we should be teaching kids this. Whenever we get in a disagreement, and I'm getting to that stage with her where I don't know much. I'm getting to be that mom, you know, she's getting a little feisty and getting to that age. And so we will bicker, right? We will butt heads. She will storm off to her room. I will not be very happy myself. I will have to walk to another room to try and cool down. But I always go to her room afterwards, knock on the door, ask her if I can come in, get permission because I know she is upset and may just need time alone. And if she says yes, I say, can we talk about it? If she says yes, then we talk about it. But I always tell her, you know, I love you through all of that. I love you through all the yelling. I understand you got upset. I got upset. I'm just a human too. Moms don't always get it right. And we make up.

Jennifer Loehding:

Yep.

Dr. Nicole Garritano:

You know, and last year she had a few girl things at school and she came home the one day. She's like, Well, I went up and I apologized to her and I tried to fix it, but she told me she didn't know if she wanted to hear that yet. And I said, Well, great. I said, She knows how you feel now. I said, She still needs to be where she is, but she knows where you stand, and when the time's right, she'll circle back around. And she did. I love it. And I was like, wow, look at that girl drama. Yeah, I love it. You know, averted in some way or dealt with in a gone in a better way.

Jennifer Loehding:

No, I love it. I love it. Yes, I love it.

Dr. Nicole Garritano:

But that can go for teams too. You know, sometimes you just bring people together and they can give voice to this is how this made me feel. And it made me feel this way because we were on this one committee together for a while. Now we're not on the same committee. And actually, when I got to the root of it, I realized I just miss doing that kind of work. And I don't feel like I get the opportunity to do it anymore. You know, and so that's why I acted this way. And then we find out, well, that person really enjoys being on the committee. You know, so can we put them back on that? Can we give them some other work that's energizing to them that they love? So even in that simple framework of, you know, rapport, rupture, repair, there's so many ways we can apply that to our lives and the bigger, the bigger picture that's taking place around us.

Jennifer Loehding:

I love this. And you know, I saw, oh, we could talk forever on that. I think that's so good because you're so right. I think that's where the problem so much, there's so much passive aggression progression and so much avoidance, all of the things. I mean, there's so many we could talk about all that. That's a whole conversation. Whole other thing. We never get to the we never get to the place where we just say, okay, listen, I'm sorry, or I'm just and so there's never the repair, right? Like that never happens, and then the wedges go, you know, they get bigger and bigger and bigger. And so we've never taught, like, been taught like conflict resolution. I don't, I do that, you know, now that wasn't something that I, in fact, my mom, I joke about this. How my mom, when I was little, would make me stand in the corner. I'm a Gen X baby. I'd get stuck in standing in the corner because she'd want me to say sorry. And so she'd just eventually get tired of looking at me and say, Go to your room because I wasn't gonna say sorry. I was like, I'm not gonna do this. This week, I ain't doing this, you know. Yes, and I do try to, you know, I'm not again, we're parents. I do try with my kids too when I'm arguing to say, look, I'm sorry. I know this, you didn't like this, that this happened or whatever. You know, I still love you. This is just we're having a moment. Walk away. I'm okay. I know my son and I, my youngest, are very much alike, so we will do that. And I just have to, I have to be like, Sean, I'm done. I'm going in the other room right now. I just have to take the breather. I'm going in the other room, but we will, I will a lot of times go back and then be like, Are you okay? You know, look, I still love you. This, I don't agree that, you know, whatever. Right. I think these are important skills to that people need to learn to come back to. So good on you. And it makes me think of, you know, my daughter, my oldest daughter is a bilingual school teacher in fourth grade. I remember she was telling me a story about how she had some kids that were two little girls that were, they were just doing mean girl stuff. And she made them, I think they had they wrote a note to each other just to apologize to each other, which I thought was such a good gesture because it was like, hey, we're still friends, you know, and I'm sorry, blah, blah, blah. Because I think that's something we just don't teach people how to do. It's just say, we don't have to own it. We don't have to own whatever happened. We can just say, I'm sorry, you know, for my part or whatever I take to contribute to that situation.

Dr. Nicole Garritano:

Right. And you're just acknowledging, right? Like we said before, as humans, we just want to be seen and valued. So when we can acknowledge, you know, I'm sorry that that affected you that way.

Jennifer Loehding:

Yeah.

Dr. Nicole Garritano:

You know, I still maybe believe what I believe, but I I never intended, right, for this to escalate, you know, to this point. And when all else fails, I always tell everybody, like, just come back to your breath. It's the simplest way to regulate in the moment. Just pause, you know, come back to your breath. It's like we were born with it. It'll be the last thing we do before we leave this earth. And it is something we do have control over. You can hold your breath, you know, you can exhale when you choose to. It happens automatically, thank goodness all day, but it can redirect your focus in an instant and it can be very quick. I know some people feel like, oh, I hear about breathing and I have to do it this certain way. And it's like, no, if you take five nice inhales and exhales just back to back, you will have you will have already started to lower your blood pressure and your heart rate. You have already, you will have already started to come back the center, even in just five breaths. So just back to breath would be another, another um just word of advice around regulation.

Jennifer Loehding:

I do it too. It's funny when I was a kid, I would when I'd get mad, I'd go in my room and I would just breathe with my mother would be like, You're breathing like a dog. I think I was on to something. That's I was so bad, I would just be like, you know, like like I don't do that anymore. I do much more calm breath, but I'm with you. I'm 100%. Like sometimes when I'm feeling a lot of a lot of um anxiety, I will do that. I'll just go, you know, splash some cool water on my face just to kind of stimulate my nervous system just to calm down, especially for us that are you know driven and uh moving all the time. You know, you have to really sometimes just be mindful. I in part of my nervous system training, one of the things we talked about was like high energy and low energy people. And somebody like me who is a high energy, I have to practice those down times, like coming down and getting grounded. And so meditation. I've studied, you know, I do meditation, all of those things are great. And I can tell you, you know, I I love to, I don't, when I look at these, you know, watches, my why I don't, they're garments. I don't take everything literally too, I just look at trends, is what I do. And what I will tell you is that when I am high strung and going all the time and not taking that downtime, I can look at just like my heart rate variability and I'll tell you it'll be like when I'm taking the time to be grounded, take some pause, it will balance out and stay that way. It's always a really good indicator. I can look at it and go, okay, we're doing this trend where it's kind of what's going on, like what's happening, you know. Like, am I going pushing hard or you know, and so I'm with you. I think that the breathing's good and um lots of different hacks for you know, yes. But that's an easy one that we can do, you know, pretty without money, all the things, you know. Right.

Dr. Nicole Garritano:

Just come right back to it. Just have to remember to.

Jennifer Loehding:

Set a you can set a note on your on your little task on your bean beep at you. Pause, take a breath. Yes. Five deep breaths. Nicole, you know. That's a good hack though. Yeah, yeah, it is. It is. You are awesome. I want to tell you thank you so much for coming on here today and sharing with us. I you and I could probably sit on here forever and I know we've got things to do. Um, so if our audience is listening and they want to get in touch with you, maybe they want to follow your work, reach out to you, maybe they need help. I don't know. Where would you like us to send them?

Dr. Nicole Garritano:

Yeah, so you can find me on LinkedIn. I'm just under Dr. Nicole Garritano. If you search for me, I'm on Instagram at Dr. Nicole Garritano, and you can DM me on either of those platforms. I check them regularly.

Jennifer Loehding:

Okay, perfect. I'm gonna reach out to you too and connect with you so we can stay in touch and all the good stuff. So that will be great. Appreciate it, appreciate all the the wisdom and the knowledge nuggets and all the good stuff. Hopefully, somebody listening to this, you know, gets something out of this that they can use and put in. If not, take a breath. We know that for sure. That's right. Lots of great things.

Dr. Nicole Garritano:

Just breathe. Just breathe. Thanks for having me. I enjoyed this conversation.

Jennifer Loehding:

So fun. All right, and of course, to our audience, we appreciate you, love you. Hope that you found this episode both informative and inspiring. And of course, if you did, you know what to do, all the things. Like, share, subscribe, comment so we can keep sharing all this fabulous content with you. And as I always say, in order to live the extraordinary, you must start, and every start begins with a decision. You guys take care, be safe, be kind to one another, and we will see you next time.

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Jennifer Loehding

Host
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Dr. Nicole Garritano

Guest